E36 M3 vs STI

[9eleventb0]

Clearly the STI will decimate the M3 below 100mph, but I'm wondering which would be quicker at triple digit speeds. I'm pretty sure an ungoverned U.S. E36 M3 can top out a decent amount higher than the STI, and so I'm wondering if the M3's acceleration from 100 and up can get close to or even equal an STI's. I would bet that the STI would still pull away even on top end, but I'm not sure just how close the e36 would come.

[slideways...]

i would guess that the m3 would stay pretty even after 75 or so but would lose regardless. awd tends to lag out on top end because the extra drivetrain losses needed to power all 4 wheels

[TatII]

true to a point....but the sti still puts down 60 more whp at all 4 wheels then the E36 M3 does at just 2. so with enough hp, awd can over come two wheels making less whp, or will tie rwd's making the same hp ( even though the awd would need more crank hp to match hte whp for a rwd car )

sti puts down 260whp stock, e36 m3 puts down 200whp stock.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by TatII

sti puts down 260whp stock, e36 m3 puts down 200whp stock.

Really?
The M3 would be losing no more than 25% through the drive train, more like 20%. The STi would be losing at least 25%, more like 30% or more.


There's also the wee issue of peak torque, and of course power curves.
The STi has a very peaky engine, while the M3's much larger engine, with more cyclinders, has a much flatter torque and power curve.

And don't forget, the STi comes from a country where cars are speed limited to 180kph. I don't know about the current model, but the early ones would redline 5th, then when it came in, 6th gear at about 180kph.
The new model does have taller gears, but they are still very short.
The M3 comes from a country where there are roads with no speed limit, and while it might be limited to around 240kph, its designed to be driven as close to that limit as easily as possible.

[VAD0R]

Ok can everyone stop with the misconception that all of Germany consists of one big Autobahn, and even certain places on the Autobahn depending on whether near a major town or city, not to mention depending on traffic plus weather there are speed limite imposed, even those these are all variable calculated at all times. But still you have somewhat of a point about the M3 have a broader of a torque curve with its larger engine and a wider gear ratio. But considering its GT racing rootes, even though there are straightaways in GT races its the turns that really determine who would cut ahead of the others, so like Subaru, BMW engineers mainly think about the handle and how well it can accelerate around and out of those turns.

And as for the WRX STi, if you are talking about the USDM version that has a half a litre increase over the Japanese and European model. Now that might not seem that much but the fact is it contributes to about a 30hp increase and even a bit more of an increase in torque, which should clue in it would put down more hp to the wheels as well compared to its JDM and EU counterpart, with the exception of the WR1 of course. Also don't underestimates Subaru's VTD AWD system in which the whole point is to achieve a fast reacting active AWD system with simplicity in the amount of gears, which it consists of mainly 3 key gears aside from the torque converters, which are electronically controlled as so they can tweak it to make it rear biased for example. Less gears means not only a system that is simpler to maintain but also means less power lost to the wheels especially when the automobile shifts into higher gears.

Despite what I listed though I think the BMW M3 would achieve a higher speed still thanks not only to the fact that it has a larger engine, even though a boxer engine is wider than other piston configuration equivalents, not to mention BMW builds some of the best sport car transmission in the business. Couple that with a couple hundred weight advantage and you have a nice road runner.

Well thats my on this. If I have listed anything thats inaccurate do tell.

[TatII]

in this country, the usdm STi's dyno at 260whp stock. they are actually underrated. also in this country, the E36 M3 only came with 240hp stock. so 200x1.2 = around 240hp. so it puts down 200whp stock. also the usdm STi is torquey as hell, the variable cam does a great job giving it good low end tq before the boost kicks in. the USDM STi's will always make more tq then hp stock and modded, even though its rated at 300 hp and 300 lb ft of tq.

[BlackGT2000]

I don't really know which car has a higher top speed, but a stock M3 isn't what you would call a torque monster. They may have a flatter torque curve than the STI. I think that even though the STI does have peaky torque I think it will surpass the M3s torque pretty early on.

[NISSANSPDR]

It'd be hard to choose...slight edge to the STi for having a warranty and lower maintenance bills

[kfoote]

My parents have owned a 95 M3 since new.

The M3 has a slightly flatter torque curve, but the STI makes more torque across the entire RPM range above about 2500 RPM's. From having driven both, with minor bolt on mods in line with removing the top speed limiter of both, the M3 will probably have a slightly higher top speed only because the top speed of the STi is very likely gear limited (redline in 6th) at about 155 MPH. Having driven both an E36 M3 and STi on track, the STi is about 10 MPH faster at the longest straight I have driven both on (130 vs 140, back straight at Mosport).

[[EvERMoRe]]

ummm, where did decimate come from? both cars do mid to high 4 second zone 0-60mph, and mid 13's in the 1/4, with a pro driving. so really, its a drivers race, unless its wet, or super cold... then STi has the advantage.

[BlackGT2000]

4 seconds would be wishful thinking, the BMW could only wish to hit a high 5 and the STI is in the 5's somewhere 0-60.

[9eleventb0]

don't forget that we're comparing the E36 M3 to the STI, not the E46. the E46 has a 0-60 in the high 4's, but the E36 is in the mid to high 5 zone for 0-60 and low 14's in the quarter.

also the STI is definitely capable of mid to high 4's in 0-60 with a good launch. only problem is that the STI runs out of steam at higher speeds.

[BlackGT2000]

I have yet to see a stock STI run 0-60 in under 5. Maybe it can happen but its one of those things like someone running below a 14 in a stock 99 Mustang GT. Its gotta take one hell of a driver.