Ignition

[orkan]

Hey there!

First day I drove my lumina euro 1992 (3.1) I got in trouble...
Visit to mechanics gived the result: Ignition Controll Module and Crankshaft Positioning Sensot need to be raplaced... a total of over $400...
Q1: Is it realistic that both parts got broken simultaneously? Without any of it car would be not driveable... So if one was broken earlier than other - I couldn't drive... But I did... =)
Q2: They ask $195 for ignition control module, but I found that module for as low as $55... (part number is the same as they showed) What the hack?
Q3: Can I replace it by myself? Initial investigation of finding where this one is located brought no result =( Is it hard? Do I need some special tools?
Q4: Can I download some manual, or something about this car?
Q5: this car should have self-test system. How do I use it? (visit to google brought no result =( ) Is it posible without special computer?

Thank you for answers!
Serg.

[jeffcoslacker]

You can run a self diagnostic by using a jumper wire, it's been so long I'll let somebody else tell you how to do it, I don't want to tell you the wrong thing and have you fry your computer.

When I worked in a shop, we'd often reccomend replacing both the CPS and the ignition module if one was bad. They have about the same service life, so if you replace one, chances are it will be back in a few months with the other one bad.

Shops charge more for parts than if you buy it yourself, that's normal. Usually the markup is less than what they are telling you, though. I only know of a few places that will charge 3x what they pay for a part.

the module sits under the coils. Follow your plug wires to the coilpacks, and it will be under them. It doesn't require any special tools to replace it, but I seem to remember it being hard to get at on your year. Take a look, and see what you think.

If the car runs, but intermittantly won't start or dies, I'd suspect the CPS before the module, but that's just a guess. Lots of times when the module goes bad, it's done. Won't start anymore.

[jeffcoslacker]

Oh, and unless you have been getting a "check engine" light, the self-diagnostic won't tell you anything about the problem...

[orkan]

Excuse me for stupid questions probably =)
English is not native language for me =) And I'm not keen in mechanics... =)
What is coil and coilpack? I cannot find translation to my native language.
About your suspection... So you suggest try to replace CPS first? WHere can I find this thing? =) And also is it hard to replace?

Thanks!
Serg.

[orkan]

There are 6 spark plugs, 3 on the front side of the engine, 3 on the back. All these 6 wires goes to the front side, below those 3 spark plugs that are on the front side. So tere is a row of 6 wires, plugged below spark plags on the front side of the engine.
So the module is under this place? What do I need to remove to get access to it? Do I need to remove this part where the spark wires comes from? =)
Hm... it seems I cannot clearly express my thoughts =)
Thanks for response!
Serg.

[orkan]

Ok... I've replaced the IC module, and everything was fine.. for a while. But soon problems appeared again. Engine started to stop suddenly. The more I drive - the more often it stops. I thought it was overheating - but the last time it stoped - it was not hot. And actually that last time I was not able to start engine again.
So I thought that's IC module again. Replaced it with new one, but no luck =(
There is no spark on all coils.
Crank sensor resistance is 1KOhm, as read in specs, but I can't get to see whether there are some defects on it. I've read in repair manual how to test it, but can't figure out where is signal wire, and where is +12 wire (purple & yellow) Anyone knows?
Check coil resistance (secondary) - it's ok. Wires OK also.
Code readings does not show any errors, I get code "12" repeated all the time.
Any ideas?
HELP!!!! =(((
Thanx

[jeffcoslacker]

Replace the crank sensor. I'm sorry, I did not see the last two posts you wrote.

[orkan]

Do you know how can I test it?
In manual I found:
---
Detach the sensor connector and install jumper wires from the power and ground terminals of the sensor connector to the wiring harness. This permits the sensor to receive power and ground without signaling the ignition system during inspection.
NOTE: Do not connect a jumper wire to the signal terminal on the sensor. This will cause the engine to start. Use extreme caution when performing this test.
---
1. detach sensor connector from where: module side, or sensor side?
2. My sensor has only 2 wires - yellow and purple, and no ground (I'm talking about connector to module. Ground should be connected around the sensor itself)
3. which of the wires is power wire, and which is signal? I cannot see it from diagram.
4. Note talks about module as "terminal?"

Thanx!!

[orkan]

And another one... WHy it was running when I replaced the module first time?

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by orkan

And another one... WHy it was running when I replaced the module first time?

I can't exactly explain that, but it does happen. I've seen it many times.

Do both wires from the CPS go to the IM? If only one does, that's the signal wire. The way I understand the test procedure as you posted it, you are to disconnect it at the sensor. I never really tested one, when I suspected it was the problem, it always was. It's a very common fault in these cars.

If I were you, I'd just replace it. If your car has over 70,000 miles on it, you will be replacing it soon anyway, even if it is not the problem. But I am very sure it is.

[orkan]

I've replaced it...
And WOW engine started...
But my happines lasted not so ong.
After about one minute - engine stoped again, and I wasn't able to start it anymore.
So there are new sensor and module.
I've checked coils, but resistance of both, first and secondary wiring matches specifications. So they should be ok, but I don't get the spark anyways =(((

[jeffcoslacker]

Well crap. Now we have to think about unusual things. Make sure your wiring to the CPS and IM aren't laying on something hot, or sharp, and test resistance from the IM to the sensor, maybe while moving the wiring around to check for a short or open circuit.

[orkan]

wiring is on, I've checked resistance on the module connector and it matches specs.
One thing I can think of - is computer.
What makes me more sure in it - it returns no error codes when testing, even though there is obvious error..

[jeffcoslacker]

That could be, but it happens sometimes, as the IM is somewhat of a stand-alone system. Did you check for power to the CPS though?

[orkan]

How can I check power? There are 2 wires. one of them signal - another 12V. I don't know which one is which.
But visual inspection of sensor and wires, and connectors brought no results. Everything looks OK.
Resistance - I checked between 2 connectors that goes to the IM, and it matches specs => wires are OK, and sensor should be OK. The sensor is new, so SHOULD need to be replaces with IS =)