Passenger power window - 1999 Windstar

[marcuseli]

The passenger power window is partly working.
When using the passanger switch it will move down but not up, when using the driver switch it wan't move at all.
The switches are fine (checked with Ohmmeter),the motor is fine, the fuses seems to be fine.
Is there any relay or electronic unit that may cause the problem?

[DRW1000]

If the motor works and the switches seem to work I would question the wiring harness from the driver side to the passenger motor. It looks like the passenger window switch on the driver's side is simply wired in parallel to the passenger window switch on the passenger door.

[DRW1000]

Now that I have re-read your post I realize my advice may not be very helpful.

I didn't realize that the passenger side only partially worked.

[12Ounce]

The front door windows depend on the Front Electronic Module for ground during the one-touch-down, ....there is also a local ground provided to the master control switch for the instantaneous control. (Whereas the rear quarter glasses have only a local ground path.) So therefore the door switch depends on the master switch for all ground paths ... as the two switches are in series. Broken wire? You might experiment with a temp ground but it would be tricky.

All windows get the same 12v supply from the accessory delay relay and fuse 106. The quarter glass windows have an additional fuse ... #18.

[DRW1000]

12ounce.........Are you sure about the switches being in series? This would imply that both switches would have to be depressed simultaneously for operation.

[12Ounce]

They are each "double pole - triple throw" and are indeed ganged in "series". If I read the diagram correctly, the motor is grounded on both ends when both switches are in their neutral positions. When either "up" or "down" is selected on either switch, that one pole gets 12v .... the other pole (slides and) maintains ground. ... and the only ground is through the master switch on the driver's door.

There could be several more switches added, and the circuit would still work.

[marcuseli]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

The front door windows depend on the Front Electronic Module for ground during the one-touch-down, ....there is also a local ground provided to the master control switch for the instantaneous control. (Whereas the rear quarter glasses have only a local ground path.) So therefore the door switch depends on the master switch for all ground paths ... as the two switches are in series. Broken wire? You might experiment with a temp ground but it would be tricky.

All windows get the same 12v supply from the accessory delay relay and fuse 106. The quarter glass windows have an additional fuse ... #18.

What is the "Front Electronic Module" and where can I find the "accessory delay relay" ?
Where do you suggest to connect the temp ground ?

Thanks for the help

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

They are each "double pole - thriple throw" and are indeed ganged in "series". If I read the diagram correctly, the motor is grounded on both ends when both switches are in their neutral positions. When either "up" are "down" is selected on either switch, the one pole gets 12v .... the other pole (slides and) maintains ground. ... and the only ground is through the master switch.

There could be several more switches added, and the circuit would still work.

Now that I am home from work and I have had time to look at the diagrams I think I see what you are saying. The two poles of each switch are wired in series.

I was actually talking about the left door and right door switches as wholes which are wired in parallel to each other.

(thought I had one on you 12ounce)

[12Ounce]

marcuseli
As of model year '99, maybe earlier: The FEM is one of several "modules" scattered around the vehicle that do specified control tasks ... a special task or a special area. They all communicate via a "twisted pair" that is located within the harnesses... using a proprietary corporate code. At the top of the control hierarchy is a processor located in the instrument cluster.

The accessory delay relay is located in the fuse junction panel near drivers left foot .... refer to glove box manual.

But you will need neither the FEM nor the delay relay if you wish to make the window work using only the switch in the passenger door:

1. Loosen the connector at the passenger door switch. Provide jumpers for terminals #3 (YE/RD), #4 (LB/BK), #6 (RD/WH). Connect terminals #2 (TN/LB) and #7 (WH/YE), on the door switch only, to local ground.
(Note: Of course, the harness wire colors are given just to help you find the correct terminal. The switch assembly may have different/unknown colors on its internal wires.)
BTW, you may want to check for 12v at terminal #4.

This should give you up/dwn control using the passenger door switch.

Happy fuse-blowing!

[marcuseli]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

marcuseli
As of model year '99, maybe earlier: The FEM is one of several "modules" scattered around the vehicle that do specified control tasks ... a special task or a special area. They all communicate via a "twisted pair" that is located within the harnesses... using a proprietary corporate code. At the top of the control hierarchy is a processor located in the instrument cluster.

The accessory delay relay is located in the fuse junction panel near drivers left foot .... refer to glove box manual.

But you will need neither the FEM nor the delay relay if you wish to make the window work using only the switch in the passenger door:

1. Loosen the connector at the passenger door switch. Provide jumpers for terminals #3 (YE/RD), #4 (LB/BK), #6 (RD/WH). Connect terminals #2 (TN/LB) and #7 (WH/YE), on the door switch only, to local ground.
(Note: Of course, the harness wire colors are given just to help you find the correct terminal. The switch assembly may have different/unknown colors on its internal wires.)
BTW, you may want to check for 12v at terminal #4.

This should give you up/dwn control using the passenger door switch.

Happy fuse-blowing!

12Ounce, thanks for the help.
I have checked the voltages on the connector:
When no switch is pressed, there are 12V on terminal #4.
When pressing the down switch the voltage on terminal #3 is 12V and 0v on terminal #6.
When pressing the up switch both terminals (#3 and #6) get 12V.
What might cause that? (I have checked the switch and it connects terminal 6&7 and 3&4 when pressing down, and terminals 2&3 and 6&4 when pressing up).
Is it possible that the master switch is causing the problem?

[DRW1000]

Couldn't help but jump in. 12 Ounce can verify my thinking.

Originally Posted by marcuseli

12Ounce, thanks for the help.
I have checked the voltages on the connector:
When no switch is pressed, there are 12V on terminal #4.
-This is correct

When pressing the down switch the voltage on terminal #3 is 12V and 0v on terminal #6.
-This is correct

When pressing the up switch both terminals (#3 and #6) get 12V.
-3 should read 0V

What might cause that? (I have checked the switch and it connects terminal 6&7 and 3&4 when pressing down, and terminals 2&3 and 6&4 when pressing up).
-This is correct

Is it possible that the master switch is causing the problem?

If you really want to get adventurous and creative using alligator clips etc. try connecting terminal 4, 5 and 6 to the proper place and ground terminal 2 and 7 leaving the "proper" connections off. This should now allow the window to operate normally with the passenger switch. If it is easier you could try leaving the passenger side switch connected and disconnect the master switch and ground terminals 4 and 5 of C501 (the master switch for the right side) and then use the passenger switch.

My gut feeling is that the wire to terminal 2 is shorted to ground either via a short in the wire or internally to the master switch.

[12Ounce]

marcuseli and DRW
I think you are both on the right track. If there is some way to attach the wires going to terminals #2 (TN/LB) and #7 (WH/YE) to a "good ground" .... then I believe a fault in the door switch will reveal itself, or the window will suddenly work. The diagram shows other connectors going back toward the drivers Master switch that might be disconnected to help make this wiring change ... or the wires could be cut into .... if you are game.

[12Ounce]

marcuseli
I see I really didn't answer your question. As DRW says, terminal #3 should be at 0v when #6 is switched to 12v. Since #3 is at 12v instead, it can only mean there is no "ground" to carry it to 0v.

Obviously you have an open circuit .... and "yes", it could be caused by the master switch on the driver's door.

[DRW1000]

Ensure that the 0 V is a continuity to ground and simply not floating (no connection) they could both read 0V

I think if there was a short to ground on the 314 wire (Terminal 2 of passenger control to terminal 4 of master) that a fuse would blow if the passenger switch was placed in the down position. I think the open theory makes more sense.

Measure the continuity between the free wires between terminal 2 of passenger side wire and terminal 4 of the master side (switches disconnected) and between passenger 7 and master 5. There should be continuity between both pairs.

With the master connecter disconneted measure the conitnuity through the switch between terminal 7 and 4 and 7 and 5 through the 3 switch positions.

[marcuseli]

Dear DRW and 12Ounce,
Thanks for the help, I have checked the continuity
between the master and the passenger switch:
#2 passenger is connected to #4 master
#7 passenger is connected to #5 master
I have also checked the master switch:
when pressing down #4 and # 7 connected
when pressing up #5 and #7 connected
The switches are fine, the wires connected, I have no idea about the cause of the problem ???