'88 Civic sometimes won't start...throws CEL...today it apparently worsened :(

[annointed]

My '88 Civic (base model hatch, 4mt, 1.5L) has had an intermittant starting problem for the past year. Sometimes, mainly after its been brought to operating temp, and shut down, it is hard to get re-started until it sits for a few minutes. The strange thing is that this problem is generally unpredictable; it usually fires up with no prob, but one out of 10 times, it'll give me problems.

However, if the car is stalled, it almost always is hard to restart. I discovered this when I let my cousin learn stick on it the other day. Any time he stalled, the car usually gave us trouble getting re-started.

In the past, these "hard start moments" would take 5 to 10 attempts to start the car before she fired up, and all was well. However, today was a different story. I drove the car in the morning, had no issues, returned home, and an hour later went outside to leave for work. Strangely, the car refused to start. I attempted 25+ times to start it. Tried again tonight. All she does is crank until the check engine light comes on.

The light is the same code that it has always been over the past year, code 16, which off the top of my head, is "Fuel injection/injector system"

I know these cars have main relay issues, so I purchased a new one from Napa (part #: AR726) over a year ago, and I plan to install it tomorrow to see if that could be the problem.

So basically, I'm looking for other ideas/experiences that might help me get this problem fixed. The car is great in every other way. The strange thing is that whatever this problem is, it does not seem to affect the drivability once the car is started. It only makes it hard to get the car to kick over. The car does suffer from an irregular idle, but I think that's just the fast idle valve, which is a whole different issue on these cars. Also, it has no muffler, although I don't think this could affect the "fuel injection system" in any adverse way.

Thanks in advance for your insight.

Mark

[1PhatCX]

hmm weird, fuel pump might be crappin out, fuel filter might be clogged, might have a fuel leak or something, just some possible solutions

[annointed]

Originally Posted by 1PhatCX

hmm weird, fuel pump might be crappin out, fuel filter might be clogged, might have a fuel leak or something, just some possible solutions

Only thing is, I'd expect those problems to also affect the drivability of the car. However, once this car is running, its fine. This car's problem somehow has to do with start-up, hence my first instinct that its the main relay.

[EF You]

you actually answered your own question, but i know that getting second opinions helps a lot. its the main relay. it happens all the time.

on my first 4g, i didnt know anything about them. it used to do the same thing everytime it got hot outside, or after the car was running for a long time. the heat makes a short inside the relay, and thats why it quits working, and works again the next day or after it sits for a while.

one thing that seemed to work, even though i didnt know why at the time, was slamming the clutch pedal down. id slam the pedal down a buncha times and it would start. i look back now and realize that it was because i was sending vibrations through the body of the car, and that eventually it would jiggle the relay enough to make it work. its scary when you look back at yourself and think "wow, i thought i knew it all back then didnt i?"

[livinincalifornia]

main relay

lol I should get a shortcut on my keyboard that types that out for me...this is like 4 times in the past few weeks.

[annointed]

This morning the car started up (surprise, surprise, stinkin' intermittant problems). Nevertheless, I didn't drive it anywhere, after yesterday's experience.

Well, a minute ago, I just had the chance to throw the new main relay in, and it seems to have eliminated both the starting problem, and the irratic idle problem! w00t!

After swapping relay's, I let the car run for a good 20 min. Not once did the idle start to wave up and down. It also behaved like a normal car, idling slightly higher for 20-40 seconds, before settling right down to a nice, low idle.

Anyway, I went back outside, and turned the car off and restarted it at least 10 times. Each time it started like clockwork after the 3rd engine crank. The idle also immediately settled down into normal range, with ZERO wavering. I log fuel economy on every fill up, and typically get 34-37 mpg, so it'll also be interesting to see if this improves as well.

At any rate, thanks for confirming what I suspected the problem was. I'm still thrilled that BOTH problems were fixed. No more embarrassing idle fluctuating

[EF You]

awesome

[91CRXTC]

Nice that y i like this place u guys really like to help out. So whats wrong with my car? I just put in aftermarket cams(stage 2) in my ZC and now my check engine light comes on and i get a code 9 on my pm6 ecu. My idle has dropped down to 500 instead of 750. My dissy is advanced to about 10deg. Can i adjust my dissy to bring my idle back up? or should i adjust the idle some how?