olds 455 in 80 firebird

[rob04gtp]

I have an 80 formula with a 301 it is the weekest motor i have ever owned so 2 weeks ago I bought a 73 olds 455 bb and tranny. Does any one have any ideas on if i will have a lot of problems or not getting it in? I am pulling the 301 in 4 days. What motor mounts should i use and will the power steering from the 301 work on the 455

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by rob04gtp

I have an 80 formula with a 301 it is the weekest motor i have ever owned so 2 weeks ago I bought a 73 olds 455 bb and tranny. Does any one have any ideas on if i will have a lot of problems or not getting it in? I am pulling the 301 in 4 days. What motor mounts should i use and will the power steering from the 301 work on the 455

pontiac never installed a 455 olds in those cars, however they installed 403 olds engines. i'm no expert in olds engines, but if the outside block is the same on a 403 and 455 olds, then you should have no major problems. and in that case the 403 engine mounts should work for you. as far as transmissions are concerned you did not mention what you got.
so if you run an automatic, you would have to use a TH400, a TH350 will not last you long. and if you are talking about the power steering box, than that should work for you.

[rob04gtp]

Originally Posted by volkerc

pontiac never installed a 455 olds in those cars, however they installed 403 olds engines. i'm no expert in olds engines, but if the outside block is the same on a 403 and 455 olds, then you should have no major problems. and in that case the 403 engine mounts should work for you. as far as transmissions are concerned you did not mention what you got.
so if you run an automatic, you would have to use a TH400, a TH350 will not last you long. and if you are talking about the power steering box, than that should work for you.

I got the TH350. I know that some of the older trans ams had the pontiac 455 and I have the same frame. I dont know the differance between the olds and pontiac 455 I was talking about the power steering pump. Also do you think I will need frame rails. The motor does 310 hp and 500 ft lb torque. thanks

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by rob04gtp

I got the TH350. I know that some of the older trans ams had the pontiac 455 and I have the same frame. I dont know the differance between the olds and pontiac 455 I was talking about the power steering pump. Also do you think I will need frame rails. The motor does 310 hp and 500 ft lb torque. thanks

the subframe is the same on all these cars. there is a difference in the piece that holds the tranny, if you swap to the TH400 (which I highly recommend) you need another bar that fits the TH400. Engine mounts I'll try the ones for the 403 olds. You should be able to get those in any parts store. If you need the metal mounts that need to go on the block, than you probably have to check the junkyards, as I'm sure they have been discontinued. The 403 olds was used until 79 in those cars. The pump I'm not one hundred percent sure about, yours is sitting on the driver side, if I'm not mistaken. I'd use the pump, but you might need new brackets, depending on the setup of the Olds engine.if you mean subframe connectors with your "frame rails", than I'd have to say the factory did not install them either. However if you have a T-Top car, than it would add some stability. Your main concern should be the 500 ft lb of torque going into the tranny. You could use it, but it will be eaten up rather quickly, you could beef up the TH350 to save weight compared to the Th400, but it is rather expensive, compared to just swap in a TH400.

[Daniel Doerksen]

not to rain on any parades but the th400 is maybe 10lbs heavyer then only difference is the tailshaft..
i agree volkerc with getting a th400.. far better tranny especially with a bb engine

[rob04gtp]

Originally Posted by volkerc

the subframe is the same on all these cars. there is a difference in the piece that holds the tranny, if you swap to the TH400 (which I highly recommend) you need another bar that fits the TH400. Engine mounts I'll try the ones for the 403 olds. You should be able to get those in any parts store. If you need the metal mounts that need to go on the block, than you probably have to check the junkyards, as I'm sure they have been discontinued. The 403 olds was used until 79 in those cars. The pump I'm not one hundred percent sure about, yours is sitting on the driver side, if I'm not mistaken. I'd use the pump, but you might need new brackets, depending on the setup of the Olds engine.if you mean subframe connectors with your "frame rails", than I'd have to say the factory did not install them either. However if you have a T-Top car, than it would add some stability. Your main concern should be the 500 ft lb of torque going into the tranny. You could use it, but it will be eaten up rather quickly, you could beef up the TH350 to save weight compared to the Th400, but it is rather expensive, compared to just swap in a TH400.

The TH350 came with the motor and I am going to put the motor and tranny in just to make sure the motor is good. I dont want to spend alot of money and find out the motor is bad. I am going to run it like this till fall if the tranny hold up. I will get the motor rebuilt and bored this winter and was going to get the tranny rebuilt at the same time. Thanks for the info on which tranny to use. when i find out the motor is good I am going find a TH400 and have that rebuilt. Subframe connectors is what meant. I dont have T-tops I wish I did. I priced out a new pump and its $50 so thats not bad. Do you think I will need heavy duty springs. All the springs and shocks were replaced last summer along with all the steering bushings. Thanks

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by rob04gtp

The TH350 came with the motor and I am going to put the motor and tranny in just to make sure the motor is good. I dont want to spend alot of money and find out the motor is bad. I am going to run it like this till fall if the tranny hold up. I will get the motor rebuilt and bored this winter and was going to get the tranny rebuilt at the same time. Thanks for the info on which tranny to use. when i find out the motor is good I am going find a TH400 and have that rebuilt. Subframe connectors is what meant. I dont have T-tops I wish I did. I priced out a new pump and its $50 so thats not bad. Do you think I will need heavy duty springs. All the springs and shocks were replaced last summer along with all the steering bushings. Thanks

First off I wish you lots of fun with your car and hope that the engine will be good.With the springs and shocks I'm fighting myself. It is a fact that pretty much all the springs, especially in the front were coded differently in those days, meaning that depending on the size engine and if you had a/c or not, you had different springs/ratings in the car. A one fits all over the counter won't do you no good. I personally run a hal coil over conversion kit in the front, so I can adjust height and so on myself, but it is rather expensive, and hal was taken over, or they renamed themselves to QA1 now. Your best source for springs, be it front or rear, is Eaton Detroit Springs ( i believe that is the right name) I got my rear springs from them, and they build all those springs according to Pontiac specs. So if you contact them, you need to tell them what engine you got, a/c, and so on, and they will pick the best spring for you.

[volkerc]

actually they do have a webaddress also:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/

I would not buy anywhere else...

[Pvt_Murphy]

Usefull site; I was having a hard time finding new stock height springs for my 77.

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by Pvt_Murphy

Usefull site; I was having a hard time finding new stock height springs for my 77.

like I said, I wouldn't buy anywhere else. HOT ROD, Car Craft and all those recommend them also...
If you are looking to get something done right,...ask them! I got the rear WS6 springs, and the quality is great!

[rob04gtp]

Originally Posted by volkerc

like I said, I wouldn't buy anywhere else. HOT ROD, Car Craft and all those recommend them also...
If you are looking to get something done right,...ask them! I got the rear WS6 springs, and the quality is great!

If the 455 turns out to to be bad what would be a good motor I could put in that would be powerful but not cost alot to build up? I want about 450 hp when the motor is done. The reason I am worried about the 455 is the guy that I got it from put it in a truck and let it idle for 10 min after he got it in and the top of the motor was hot and the bottom was cold. he pulled it out and put a 350 in and it did the same thing. He replaced the radiator and it fixed the problem. So there is a small chance that the 455 could be bad. What do you think?

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by rob04gtp

If the 455 turns out to to be bad what would be a good motor I could put in that would be powerful but not cost alot to build up? I want about 450 hp when the motor is done. The reason I am worried about the 455 is the guy that I got it from put it in a truck and let it idle for 10 min after he got it in and the top of the motor was hot and the bottom was cold. he pulled it out and put a 350 in and it did the same thing. He replaced the radiator and it fixed the problem. So there is a small chance that the 455 could be bad. What do you think?

the top is hot? well i'm not quite sure how you guys tested. of course the top of an engine will become hot, cause that is where the combustion takes place, so your top will always be "hotter" and sure enough, a radiator will cool it down, cause it is supposed to do that.
on a used engine you usually do a compression test to see if all 8 cylinders are within a certain area, and one could pull the oilpan to look for any bearing trouble. however, regarding the other question, a relatively "cheap" engine to build is the 400 Pontiac. Parts are pretty much available everywhere, and not very expensive compared to other engines. I would assume you would pay more for an olds. You will defintely pay more to build a 350 or 455 Pontiac. Dropping in a 400 is done without major problems. And getting into that hp range should not be a problem either, good carb, headers, cam and all the goodies...

[rob04gtp]

Originally Posted by volkerc

the top is hot? well i'm not quite sure how you guys tested. of course the top of an engine will become hot, cause that is where the combustion takes place, so your top will always be "hotter" and sure enough, a radiator will cool it down, cause it is supposed to do that.
on a used engine you usually do a compression test to see if all 8 cylinders are within a certain area, and one could pull the oilpan to look for any bearing trouble. however, regarding the other question, a relatively "cheap" engine to build is the 400 Pontiac. Parts are pretty much available everywhere, and not very expensive compared to other engines. I would assume you would pay more for an olds. You will defintely pay more to build a 350 or 455 Pontiac. Dropping in a 400 is done without major problems. And getting into that hp range should not be a problem either, good carb, headers, cam and all the goodies...

thank you

[volkerc]

you're welcome rob04gtp

[MrPbody]

The Olds 455 is a good engine. However, the deck height of the block (centerline of crank to deck) is quite a bit higher than that of the 403. Technically speaking, the 403 is a "small block Olds", and the 455 is a "big block". The side mounts should work from the 403. The exhaust will not, due to the added height. I've seen some pretty sad looking headers "beat to fit" a later Firebird with the big Olds. Hood clearance is another issue. If the car is a T/A with the "shaKer", it won't clear.
Be very glad it's not a T-top car if you want to make some power with it. Rattle traps...
And, in answer to the last question, about which engine would be a good one? Pontiac 400 or 455. In many Pontiac peoples' minds, there ARE no others. BTW, the 400 will basically bolt right in where the 301 was. Some variations in brakcets and the mounting shells, but all the main stuff is in the correct places. And well done 400P will stomp a 455 Olds... Wanna talk aout what can be done with 455 Pontiac??? How's mid-10s with street gears, pump gas (93) and a flat tappet cam? They do it all the time.