Tran. for 3.8 in GA

[grandamdriver52]

Yea, hey guys. You remember when i said that my GA will have a 3.8 in sooner or later. well, i know a guy who has one that im might consider buying and if i do then i will hold back on new rims for my car but i know that its sorta big to put in one but dont you need a different trany in there to make it fit?...well, what kind of trany will i need to make it work. i know that i will have to get different wire harnes, mounts, and other things. but what kind of trany will i need?...thanks guys.

[Ridenour]

The 3.8's in the last few generations of Grand Prix's mate with the 65 transmission. Our is the 45 (it's like 45te, or something like that, I don't remember). But yeh, I'm not sure if the 3.8 would mate up ok with our 45 transmission - it's possible. But if not, then you'll need a 65.

[grandamdriver52]

aight, i will look into it a little more, thanks ride.

[grandamdriver52]

whats weird is i know that the 3.1 and the 3.4 are almost the same motor (as in size and and stuff) and all they did is tweeked a bit with it for the grand ams now, and i also know that the 3.3L for the 92 and 93 grand ams are the almost the same as the 3.8L buit again they tweeked it a bit. i know that the 3.3L is hardly any more narrow than the 3.8 and they fit in the grand am. its stupid that the 3.8 wont fit it. and i know that thoes 3.3 were power. we had in our buick century we had about 4 or 5 years ago. about 0-30 they were sorta dogish but they rawp up so high in RPMs and they are like a rocket when you get them goin. i just dont like the looks of the motor that much and they are sorta old. but thanks again ride.

[Madcat455]

Transmissions in Post 96 Grand am's is the 4t60e.... the 3800 came with that same Trans from 92 till the 4T65E replaced it.

So bottom line.... If your grand am is after 96 then your existing trans will bolt up fine (although they won't last if its a SC3800).... If supercharging, then go with the 4T65E, but you'll have to have custom CVshafts made up because the GP's are wider. I have no idea if the post 99 GA's have the 4t65E or not(but I think so)... but they are still wider than the 96-98 GA's.

you should be just perfect if your GA is 99+(and has the 4T65E).... Make sure you get the computer and wireing harness too.... You'll need them.

[malibugtp]

99+ have the 4t45e

[grandamdriver52]

ok..um, my GA is a 95. I seriously thought that the 3300 had the same as the 3800. but i think it was for the serise 1 motors. im thinkin about gettin a serise two for my 95 grand am to replace my 3.1L. is it still too big with the 4t60e?..or what?...haha, im gettin lost now cause of my year.

[Madcat455]

Ok... Looked up some stats on the 95. It has the 4T60E trans... so that's a plus.

I have no Idea as to the relation between the 33 & 3800 engines... other than they look allike.


In all honesty.. this swap is possible (afterall anything is with enough time, and money...lol). But expect it to be VERY involved... not going to be just a drop and go.

If you want easy(er), try a 3400.

I don't think a "step by step" exists for this swap, basically you're going to need the engine, harness, ECU, and probably other misc. parts plus a whole buttload of time to do it, Plus good welding and fabrication skills.

My .02.... have a donor car there, so you're sure you have everything necessary to do it. Check some junk yards for GA's that have the 3300 and take pictures and measurments to have an idea of what has to be relocated, and where the engine is going to sit(maybe grab some parts off of it too).

Good Luck... I was reaserching this for my 96 GA, but fount it to be too much trouble/cost. I'd rather buy a nice SC Regal... probably similar cost and less hassle..lol.

[grandamdriver52]

haha, ture, very true. yes, thoes 3300 are the same as the 3800, well, they did some tweeking to the 3300 to make what the 3800 is. i know that the 3300 is a little bigger but its not as big as the 3800 because they only made every little part bigger from the 3.3 to the 3.8L. i looked on the net and tons and tons of research. yes, people say that it does take time and a little more $ than a normal and easier swap. but i think i know how to get it all in there.
I know that i was asken the question but now i have the answer but this will save time for people that also have this question later.
well, most people that have done thins swap have not used the 4t60e trany but the 4t65-HD trany becuase of the lighter weight of the GA. You will have to make custom motor mounts or have some made for you. Different wiring harness and a gen. 2 or 3 factory 3800 Supercharged fuel pump (cause i want the S/C. you can, if want, keep the same gas lines but you will need to change the fuel pump. when you take out the 3100 you will be using thoes injectors with the motor, and the ECU which is mated for thoes injectors. also, using the 4t65-HD trany is better cause the PCM is ready to go for that transmition. and again, becuase the GA is lighter it is almost recammended to put in a LSD into the differential, or have rebuilding it later on.
I did alot of research on this and now im almost ready, now all I have to do now is do it...but it will be a while but i can get prepared in the mean time...taking classes next year for my sophmore year in mechanics. Got the knowledge on it so im ready...lol
and thanks for helpping me before i looked it up, just to add more to my knowledge im building (hahah, building). thanks

[grandamdriver52]

forgot to add, sophmore in high school, haha, i know, but i love workin on motors. (on my friends cars cause they pay me and thats all i can do cause i cant work on mine untill i leave) only 2 more years - post secondary in tech school.

[Madcat455]

If the 3300 is so close, That'll help alot with placement and mount location. I don't think getting it in there is the problem, so much as the wireing is.


You're relying alot on the capabilities of the much older ECU to be able to run the newer engine... don't forget that the 3800 has different sensors, plugs, and some extra wires from those sensors(thanks to design changes as the years pass) that your 3.1 doesn't have... Espicially since you're planning on using a SC engine. Double check the stock injectors with the stock SC3800 injectors.. I don't think the 3.1's will be able to keep up with a SC3800. ECU can use any injector you put in.. just reprogram it appropriatly. Might be able to get away easier if you go with a same year SC3800... better chance of the sensors being the same.

I'd get a Haynes or Chilton manuel for each vehicle... and compare the wireing for each computer (wireing diagrams are in the back of the Haynes... don't know about the Chiltons), I bet you'll find alot if differences. If anything, that'll atleast tell you what old wire to splice into which newer sensor, as none of your plugs are going to fit (well, maybe a few...lol).

I have to totally agree on the Trans choice.... they switched to the 4t65e for a good reason.

Sophmore eh.... Cool that you're tackling a project like this.... I tended to stick with RWD v8 cars in my High School days... But I allways like the allure of something "different". Gotta be Unique.

Good Luck... If you can, try to do a "step by step" and post it... maybe help others wanting to do it to, as I haven't found a decent guide on it yet.

[vamc]

After reading all of this, i have came to a conclusion!!! Do not put a 3.8L engine in a Grand AM!!! Remember, its only a grand am, not a corvett. You are not a fast and furious, can can die. The engine weights to much for the car. you can create stress fractures on the frame. Also with a bigger engine, the car will handle much different then stock. There will have to be a ton of upgrades JUST to handle the engine. There is no reason to put a 3.8L in there. POINTLESS! The only reason i can come to; to put this engine in the car, you would have to be street racing! I seen people, mostly kids, street racing and they come into the ER DEAD! A few months ago there was a kid that was street racing and was killed when he rolled his car. DOA! Dead on arrivel! I guess when you are young, you dont think you could die, will let me tell you, YOU CAN! All in all, its a wast og Money and time, and your life. DON'T DO IT!!!!

[grandamdriver52]

Well, its called a project car. i dont plan on keeping it through college or anything. i will probly get a grand prix right away to drive around till i have enough money in my wallet for the upgrades to the car. and i wont street race....well, idk, but probly not, i was going to but i dicided it wasnt a good thing. im taking it to a drag strip and race....and yes, for money. i will need the extra money for the college and for the future gto when i get out. it will be good to put the 3.8 in it, then i will have to put other upgrades in it later.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by grandamdriver52

Well, its called a project car. i dont plan on keeping it through college or anything. i will probly get a grand prix right away to drive around till i have enough money in my wallet for the upgrades to the car. and i wont street race....well, idk, but probly not, i was going to but i dicided it wasnt a good thing. im taking it to a drag strip and race....and yes, for money. i will need the extra money for the college and for the future gto when i get out. it will be good to put the 3.8 in it, then i will have to put other upgrades in it later.

L67 into a Grand Am??? Thats wishful thinking. How do plan on controlling all that torque oversteer, bouncing, chassis flex even if you manage to fabricate axles that may work or even if you get it to fit in the engine compartment-substructure. First run down the dragstrip and you'll probably run into the staging lights.

Here's some good advice. The best way to get to and through college is keep your grades high in high school and earn a few scholarships, get a job, and not waste any time on a "pie in the sky" car project. Just my 2 cents.



Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU, Granatelli CAI Tuneable MAF,
3.4 SC pulley, Hi-Flow CAT, u-bend delete, 180 TS,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, AC Delco 41-932 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt
ET: 14.3 @ 96 mph

[Madcat455]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

L67 into a Grand Am??? Thats wishful thinking. How do plan on controlling all that torque oversteer, bouncing, chassis flex even if you manage to fabricate axles that may work or even if you get it to fit in the engine compartment-substructure. First run down the dragstrip and you'll probably run into the staging lights.

Here's some good advice. The best way to get to and through college is keep your grades high in high school and earn a few scholarships, get a job, and not waste any time on a "pie in the sky" car project. Just my 2 cents.

WTF are you talking about... this is not anything new... ITS BEEN DONE BEFORE. Torque steer will not be any worse than a GP... in fact it'll be alittle better since the CV shafts will not be as long (and a LSD would fix that as well). Traction will be a problem.... Chassis flex can be fixed... if it's a problem. The GP doesn't have any extra reinforcement over the GA.... Engine Cradel is similar to the GP.. Same grade steel, same # of mounting points in similar locations, same grade bolts.

As long as he does the engine mounts correctly, then it should handle like a Light GP. Granted the Center of gravity will move forward due to the extra weight of the 3800, but he can put new springs on his struts to help offset that... and worse case, install ballast in the trunk. New springs will also help the Handling issue... as well as a strut tower brace if needed.

If this swap has been done in a Gen 3 cavalier (smaller engine compartment than a GA even) then its only a matter of skill and persistance.


But I do agree with your college advise... this is not a project I'd take on in High school, with college pending.