96 Coolant loss, IMRC stuck open, #1 missfire, O2 lean etc etc

[shankster]

After searching and reading here I've a better idea of what's going on but before I tear into things thought I'd try for some more input.

I have 96 Windstar, 3.8 w/150,000 miles. (new wires and plugs at 110,000)

Biggest concern is loss of coolant - 1 gal / week. No noticable leaks or drips. Can't see any evidence of coolant in the oil (it would be milky, right? or condensation on the dipstick?). How do I determine where the coolant is going? is it related to any of my other problems shown below?

Also I sometimes have a very rough idle right after I start it up which usually goes away after a few seconds or minutes of driving. This probably happens on 50% of start ups. Otherwise it runs fine, good power but with a slight misfire noticable.

I get white smoke during the rough idling. Again some startups I get the white smoke, other times not a trace. I'm hoping that because It doesn't smoke all the time it's not a head gasket problem?

Troublecodes (thanks Autozone):
P0301 - Cylinder #1 misfire
P0131 - O2 sensor voltage too low
P1131 - Lack of H20S switch - sensor indicates lean
P1537 - IMRC 1 stuck open
P1537 - IMRC 2 stuck open
P1538 - IMRC 1 stuck open
P1538 - IMRC 2 stuck open

I've been ignoring these problems for too long - family driving vacation next month so I guess I need to get it figured out and fixed (or should I roll it into the Grand Canyon when I get there?). I recon I should figure out the coolant loss first - any tips on figuring it out myself or should I take it in to a mechanic?

[wiswind]

You WILL want to get the car fixed befor taking off on a trip. The Combination of oxygen sensor, and cylinder #1 misfire.....and white smoke....lead me to suspect that coolant is getting into cylinder #1.
I do not know right off the top of my head if the oxygen sensor lines up with the rear bank of cylinders...or not.

2 causes are likely....1 is head gasket....as cylinder #1 and #4 are the ones that have the weakest point in each head gasket.....a thin part between a coolant passage and the cylinder....and coolant "wicks" into the gasket....leading to failure.
The other common cause is a leaking intake manifold gasket. To repair a head gasket....you have to take the intake manifold off......so replacing the intake manifold gaskets is a good idea.
It is a BIG job to replace the head gasket....I have not done it....

A shop may be able to do a "leakdown" test on cylinder #1 for you.....and find out if the leak is at the head gasket. If the cylinder holds pressure.....then perhaps the leak is the intake manifold gasket.

Another common leak is the Front Cover....aka "Timing cover". However...that would not lead to a leak into the cylinder.

Removing the upstream (before catalytic converter) for each bank.....and looking for a green-ish stain on it....will tell you which bank has the leak.... However....it will not tell you how it got in there. Coolant will damage an oxygen sensor......which is in line with your codes. I recommend Motorcraft Oxygen sensors.....they cost a little more (less than $10 more) than the Bosch....but are worth it. I bought 2 from www.rockauto.com

Your IMRC is a separate and not as pressing of an issue. It has a number of threads in the windstar forum...so a search on "IMRC" should get you some good reading.

[wiswind]

I just was reading on another forum.....with FORD techs..... They stated that the 96 and newer 3.8L in the windstar is more likely to have the intake gasket fail than the head gasket.
They mentioned that leaking at cylinder # 1 is very common for the intake manifold gasket.

They also mentioned that the intake manifold gaskets come in 3mm and 4mm size.....and the production date of your car is as important as the year. My luck.....whatever size I would order would be the wrong size.......but I seem to remember that they were not very expensive....so If I was doing the job myself....I might order both sizes......and be sure to have the right thickness once I have everything apart.

I guess I am feeling like this is good news....as it is a much cheaper repair for intake manifold gaskets....

Also....Timing cover gasket leakage....it is a big gasket...but often...it can leak....and drip onto one of the catalytic converors......and thus...boil away without having a chance to get to the floor.
They mentioned that the loose bolts that people can find on the timing cover can be a result of the gasket deterioration......and with less gasket material in there....the bolts will then be loose. The timing cover leakage often results in coolant into the oil. But...again.....not into a cylinder. Timing cover gasket is cheap......labor to change is MAJOR on a windstar.

[shankster]

Thanks wiswind, sounds like I have some work ahead of me. I'll start off with the leakdown test and post what the results are. I might pull the O2 sensors too and check for that green stain.

[floridatgp]

my 96 had the intake manifold gasket go bad,it was just after a weak battery didn't turn enigine over well and had a backfire in intake manifold, blew off the vacume connector. I was lucky the mechanic was honest enough to stop once he saw the gasket was bad, I has signed up for head gasket, I am dissapointed the garage didn't do a leakdown test as standard proceedure to verify head gasket was/wasn't root cause.
my van had 120K at time, 135k & its holding together, mechanic said new gasket was better design.
Contrary to some people's opinions, have since been running Bar's heavey duty stop leak pellets in engine as a preventative, or to at least try and prevent serious sudden problems. I also think it slowed or stopped a timing cover leak.

[steve_o]

www.rockauto.com is great for referencing parts but has lousy information systems.

I had a large order duplicated.

A simple mistaek (like this one) and it cost me money to return.

No checks for redundancy.

How they didn't question 2 separate but exact same orders going to the exact same place ?

Be careful

[gbarr]

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

[wiswind]

I have been using Bar's Stop Leak for 2 years....and has kept leaks under control.
I did a coolant system flush last spring....did not put stop leak in.....and the coolant bottle level started a slow drop this winter.....added stop leak...and problem was solved.

I use either "Liquid Aluminum" or the Stop Leak liquid....as the pellet version is hard to add, unless you warm it up first......due to the fact that the Radiator mounted Tranny cooler is right under the radiator cap. But the original pellet version works.
I WOULD use ONLY Bar's brand.

[shankster]

Originally Posted by gbarr

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

I'm going to have to wait till the first week of June to get it into the shop - wife can't do without the van during the school year. Will let you know.

[shankster]

Originally Posted by wiswind

I just was reading on another forum.....with FORD techs.....

Wiswind: Don't suppose you could post a link to that site - sounds like another good resource we should all have in our favorites list.
Thanks
Robert

[wiswind]

www.flatratetech.com

[shankster]

Originally Posted by gbarr

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

gbarr:
After some more reading and research I've pretty much convinced myself that I have an intake manifold gasket problem. Even if I don't it sounds like I should replace them anyway. I could have a mechanic do a bunch of tests but I figure why spend $50 - $100 when I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is. I'll get my parts ordered and hopefully get the job done in the next few weeks - will let you know what I find in there.

[shankster]

Originally Posted by wiswind

.......intake manifold gaskets come in 3mm and 4mm size.....and the production date of your car is as important as the year. ........

I called the local Ford dealer and gave them my VIN and asked which thickness I should get. He read from a service bulletin that I should use a 3mm unless the manifold had been replaced at one time in which case I should use a 4mm. Not sure if I should trust this info?

Incidently they wanted $65.54 for the gasket set which was a special order. I checked www.parts.com (supposedly "genuine Ford parts") and they want $30.35 + 7.95 s/h). I just can't figure out which of their gaskets are 3mm and which are 4mm. They had gaskets for 96-98 and 95-00 - anyone have any idea what the thicknesses might be.(parts.com hasn't responded to my email and it looks unlikely that they will). If I can't figure it out I could order both and return the wrong one.

[wiswind]

Millennium Ford in the Seattle Washington area is listed in the Parts.com list of Ford Dealers.....give them a try. They responed promptly to an email from me. The dealers list the "list price" and their price. If you give them your VIN, they should be able to tell you....just like your local dealer did.

Their phone number is 206-431-7333.

[shankster]

Thanks for the Millenium Ford tip Wiswind - fantastic resource - the parts guy (Ed I think) has responded to every stupid little question I had promptly. Prices are excellent too.

I got my gasket kit (I went with the 3mm - will return it if it turns out I need a 4mm) and tore things apart this weekend. Getting to some of those intake manifold bolts was a real PITA. I was shocked but also gratified to find out that the intake manifold gasket (on the left bank) was trashed. There were pools of antifreeze all over and a thick sludge buildup everywhere else. The gasket was worse towards the front of the motor (#1 cylinder) and the center cylinder area of the gasket was pretty chewed up too. The right bank gasket wasn't too bad and I don't think there was any leaking there.

A few other things I noticed - the EGR nozzles that feed into each cylinder on the intake manifold were completely blocked (but easlily cleaned out). That explains an intermittent CEL I've been getting. Also most of the fuel injectors had a buildup of crud on them that had to be seriously affecting performance. I'm looking forward to a smooth running vehicle.

Not sure how extensive the damage to the motor has been with the coolant leak. I'll get everything back together, maybe add some oil additive to try to flush out some of that sludge and then change oil/filter and add some "Prolong" or something similar which I'm hoping could help mitigate whatever damage has been done. Anyone have any suggestions on good oil additives? Maybe I'll get another 50k out of this vehicle?