The End of America

[SnoopisTDI]

excerpt

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, America became a true police state. Your U.S. senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without even reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.

The Real ID Act blackmails state governments into turning their drivers licenses into a draconian tool of the federal homeland security apparatus. If states refuse, their citizens lose such "privileges" as being allowed to board an airplane, enter a federal building, or apply for social security. President Bush is expected to sign the bill eagerly on Thursday.

In three years -- by May 2008 -- this Stalin-style internal passport will be an American reality. But your government will have more control over you than Stalin ever dreamed in his most violent, vicious, anti-freedom dreams.

The rest of it: The End of America: May 10, 2005

Your papers, sir.

ETA: There is a link on that page to The State vs The People... great book!

[thegladhatter]

Don't bother me none. It will make it more difficult for losers to come to the US and start crap. It will only be a problem for those who have something to hide or have reason to hide their identity. Other than that...what is the big freaking deal?

[drewh4386]

Originally Posted by bagwanshrirashnish

Don't bother me none. It will make it more difficult for losers to come to the US and start crap. It will only be a problem for those who have something to hide or have reason to hide their identity. Other than that...what is the big freaking deal?

I understand both views but I second bagwanshrirashnish... :WTF:

[Muscletang]

Here is a good site that has the entire bill on it.

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/hr418.html

If you don't feel like reading all of it though here is the bill explained in a simple way.

To establish and rapidly implement regulations for State driver's license and identification document security standards, to prevent terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States, to unify terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and removal, and to ensure expeditious construction of the San Diego border fence.

Anyway, what's the big deal? I didn't ever hear of people complaining when the driver's license was first put into affect. It's an I.D. card, so what?

[YogsVR4]

There is no national ID card. The law being sited is exactly what Muscletang wrote - its a standardization of DRIVERS LICENCES and tightening up of asylum laws. There is nothing about a national id card. What we have here is another ‘DRAFT’ style rumor going around.

[Cyprus106]

I second that. Until I read the actual bill, I'm going to be a little skeptic about some sort of internal passport.

[sivic02]

I personally think it will be a useless waste of money but im not gonna bitch about having to carry around a drivers liscense

[Ace$nyper]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

There is no national ID card. The law being sited is exactly what Muscletang wrote - its a standardization of DRIVERS LICENCES and tightening up of asylum laws. There is nothing about a national id card. What we have here is another ‘DRAFT’ style rumor going around.

you are correct about this.

[Franko914]

Originally Posted by sivic02

I personally think it will be a useless waste of money but im not gonna bitch about having to carry around a drivers liscense

Ummm, what's a drivers license? Do I really need one?

[SnoopisTDI]

Yeah, it is a bit sensationalistic, isn't it?

To me though, it sounds like the bill is mostly BS. All they had to do was say the states have to require proof of legal residence and distinguish that on the driver's license.

There are some parts I don't like at all.

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

Does that mean everyone has to get a new driver's license within the next 3 years?

(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:

(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).

Does this mean that when you show up with birth certificate, social security card, etc., they will have to contact the appropriate agencies to verify the documents are legit? That sounds like it will either a.) turn that 2 hour wait at the DMV into a 3 week process, or b.) cost a huge sum of money to create new databases or in some way connect the driver's license agency to the agency issuing the documents.

States must:

(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.

(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.

That sounds expensive too. What are they going to do, look up the document images after they find the remains of a suicide bomber and say "yep, that was fake?"

(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license.

So, say I live in Maryland, but get sent to Arizona for 6 months for work. I can't get an AZ ID so I can check-out books from the library and stuff like that, without scrapping my Maryland driver's license? That means for the short term I'm here, I would probably have to register my car and insure myself here as well. I know most states will take your old license when they give you a new one anyway, but not the same for the state ID.

(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.

So I have to come back and re-prove who I am and where I live every 8 years?

(e) Additional Powers of Secretary- The Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion--

(1) may, in addition to the requirements of subsection (b), prescribe one or more design formats for driver's licenses and identification cards that satisfy the requirements of this section in order--

(A) to protect the national security interests of the United States; and

That sounds pretty damn vague to me. But it does say they can create one format of driver's license.

continuation of that same part:

(2) may, in addition to the limitations described in subsections (c)(2)(C)(ii) and (d)(10), further limit the validity period of driver's licenses and identification cards in order to provide for periodic confirmation of principal residence address and lawful presence in the United States in a status described in subsection (c)(2)(B).

So I guess that was 8 years, or whenever the hell they feel like it. Your papers please! I also wonder if that has to be an established period when the ID is issued, or if they can give you an 8 year license and then decide a year later that yours has expired. Again, vague.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.

(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:

Notice that is a minimum of information, so who knows what other information might be there. I guess any further information if seen as a violation of privacy could be taken to court though.

Ok, so with all these expensive databases, if they want federal assistance(what state won't?), they have to link up and share info under the 'Driver License Agreement.' Does anyone know what that is? Anyway, whatever that Agreement is, we now have the distinct possibility, as stated in this bill, that the federal government can "prescribe... one format[s] for drivers' licenses and identification cards" while linking and sharing all databased information(ie, all your proof of citizenship, residence, picture, etc). That's not a national ID?

(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary for each of the fiscal years 2005 through 2009 such sums as may be necessary to carry out this title.

Is there going to be any debate on the "sums as may be necessary," or will they just hand out the cash like lollipops?




I still don't see what difference this is going to make. As it is, you already need a photo ID and social security card to get a job- not that this stops illegal aliens. It just seems like this bill could be simplified a lot, saving a lot of money and a lot of time. I don't foresee it having any effect on immigration or terrorism, only being a pain in the ass for the rest of us.

And while it doesn't involve all the implications linked to in the original post, it certainly takes us one step closer. A national ID with "common machine-readable technology," connected to a databse of all this information. And if you really think the only information shared will be the minimum listed, that's naive at best. As Lord Acton(?) said, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Think back to the Social Security number- they said it would not be used for ID, but see how far you can get without one today.

It will start with the new drivers licenses and the basic database, then they'll determine that it didn't make a difference, so they'll make all the state licenses the same, and then they'll see that it still doesn't make a difference, and they'll start requiring this ID for more and more of the stuff we do every day, and that won't help so they'll start keeping more of this everyday information in the database. And on, and on, and on... to the point where the means become the ends.

It sounds crazy, but that's the way government works. I just don't see this bill as being effective, and I don't think the government will see it as effective either. I don't trust the goverment to leave "well enough" alone. This is the "mission creep" mentioned in the link from the first post.

Also, don't you think it's strange that the bill was expected to fail in the senate, so they stuck in another bill? I know this isn't a new tactic by any means, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't raise some eyebrows.

I think the passing of this bill requires a very watchful eye.

Originally Posted by bagwanshrirashnish

Don't bother me none. It will make it more difficult for losers to come to the US and start crap. It will only be a problem for those who have something to hide or have reason to hide their identity. Other than that...what is the big freaking deal?

What is acceptable today may not be acceptable tomorrow.

[Rbraczyk]

Its more legislation Bullsh*t we dont need. The Bush administration is pushing for this so they can stick loopholes in and make the United States a place immigrants want to stay away from.

I'm so mad at all this I stay away from politics because it seems so draconian and plutocratic what the current administration is doing.

[fredjacksonsan]

Website pretty sensationalist. We'll see in a couple years if ammunition sales are restricted.

It could be another good government idea that goes too far.

[twospirits]

While I agree with yogs.
besides, so what if it is labeled as a national ID card. Would that be a bad thing. As long as it keeps anyone deemed not suitable to drive off the roads I'm all for it. Its my opinion that states should re-issue licenses more often and be more stricker.

TS out (btw, getting a fake license)