No action on Marine who shot hurt Iraqi

YogsVR4 · #1 05-05-2005, 01:50 PM

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3168393

SAN DIEGO - A Marine corporal who was videotaped shooting an apparently injured and unarmed Iraqi in a Fallujah mosque last year will not face court-martial, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.

Maj. Gen. Richard Natonski, commanding general of the I Marine Expeditionary Force, said that a review of the evidence showed the Marine's actions in the shooting were "consistent with the established rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict." The corporal was not identified in a two-page statement issued by Camp Pendleton.

The Nov. 13 incident was videotaped by Kevin Sites, a freelance journalist on assignment for NBC. The shooting happened after a Marine unit entered the mosque and found five men wounded the day before, when another Marine unit clashed with gunmen using the mosque to fire from, according to Sites' broadcast.

In the video, as the cameraman moved into the mosque, a Marine in the background can be heard shouting obscenities and yelling that one of the men was only pretending to be dead. The Marine then raises his rifle toward an Iraqi lying on the floor and shoots the man.

Before the Nov. 8 assault on Fallujah, Marine commanders told infantrymen that the rules of engagement allowed for use of deadly force against men of military age deemed holding hostile intent, even if the enemy didn't fire on the Marines first.

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Sounds right to me. Anyone shooting and then playing possum in a church, mosque or synagogue should be shot.

thrasher · #2 05-05-2005, 02:16 PM

Seems a little barbaric to me. Shooting an unarmed man is kinda weak. The brief doesn't tell us enough about what really happened though. Anyone know the whole story?

drewh4386 · #3 05-05-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrasher

Seems a little barbaric to me. Shooting an unarmed man is kinda weak. The brief doesn't tell us enough about what really happened though. Anyone know the whole story?

thats what i was thinking.

sivic02 · #4 05-05-2005, 05:16 PM

If they look like they are dead just shoot them anyway. That way if they arent, they will be soon. I dont think you can get in trouble for killing a dead man.
I can understand that, I am sure the guy was stressed out and everything. He was being shot at by the guy previously, is it wrong to shoot someone who is unarmed in the back, yes. Would I do the same thing if I were in his shoes, probably.

drewh4386 · #5 05-05-2005, 05:27 PM

Reminded me of saving private ryan

Flatrater · #6 05-05-2005, 06:02 PM

I see nothing wrong with shooting someone who was just shooting at you. After all several non soliders had their heads cut off while they were unarmed and no outcry was given over that. Hundreds of people have been kidnapped and/or killed and none of them were armed or soliders.

Franko914 · #7 05-05-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrasher

Seems a little barbaric to me. Shooting an unarmed man is kinda weak. The brief doesn't tell us enough about what really happened though. Anyone know the whole story?

I believe the corporal and his team were involved in a similar action the day before and was wounded by an injured "seemingly unarmed" insurgent playing possum who, alas, managed to kill a member of the team. The cameraman had mentioned that when he first released the footage.

KustmAce · #8 05-05-2005, 10:44 PM

Im torn.

Part of me says, its war, people get shot.

Then a part of me says, the man was unarmed, he should have just been taken as a POW.

Ill have to stew on this one for a bit.

Muscletang · #9 05-05-2005, 11:42 PM

Shoot first and ask questions later. These crazy nuts have no problem strapping T.N.T. to pregnant women so what could they do with an "unarmed" man?

YogsVR4 · #10 05-06-2005, 10:05 AM

The thing that sticks out to me is the 'playing possuum' part of the story. Had the guy just moaned or put his hand up in an act of surrender, this wouldn't have happened. Either he was trying to trick the soldiers into coming close and then hurt them or he was hoping they'd pass him by so he'd be able to fight another day. Either way, his intent was to kill more soldiers. The marine made the right choice.

fredjacksonsan · #11 05-06-2005, 11:26 AM

Damn skippy. I'm glad there's no action being taken against him.

For those of you who missed the previous discussion on this topic:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=324501

codycool · #12 05-06-2005, 05:00 PM

I just watched a representative from north carolina asking Lt. Gen Mattis former commander of the 1st Marine division about this very topic. The Marine performed justly under the rules of engagement at the time. The rules were that if they felt a threat that they needed no other reason to act first. Therefore the guy got waxed...OORAH!

KustmAce · #13 05-06-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Shoot first and ask questions later. These crazy nuts have no problem strapping T.N.T. to pregnant women so what could they do with an "unarmed" man?

Aren't we supposed to be more moral than they are? Isn't that why they are "terrorists" and we are "liberators"? I'm afraid the eye for an eye argument fails miserably in this case.

Franko914 · #14 05-06-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KustmAce

Aren't we supposed to be more moral than they are? Isn't that why they are "terrorists" and we are "liberators"? I'm afraid the eye for an eye argument fails miserably in this case.

Sorry, KustmAce, but try telling that to the families of soldiers killed by playing-possum-killers. I agree our troops have to hold themselves at a high standard when dealing with the enemy but against these insurgents who play possum, shooting them is already a higher standard.

thegladhatter · #15 05-08-2005, 02:10 AM

IF you are at war and....
IF you are being shot at and....
IF the adrenaline is pumping to the max and....
IF the enemy combatants are holed up in a mosque and....
IF you fear for your life and....
IF a joker is playing dead and....
again...
IF you fear for your life....
YOU DO WHAT YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO DO!

These guys had no business being there if they had no ill intent toward our soldiers. Sure it was a mosque...but if there is a war going on in your neighborhood....are you going to be hanging out at your local baptist church with your homies, or will you be staying out of harms way hunkered down in a safe place?

No sympathy from normal people going to that loser.

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