97 Legacy GT - Why is there oil in my water?

[Capuano]

I checked the coolant bottle the other day, and found an oily crud in the bottle, mixed in with the green antifreeze & up the sides of the bottle. I was also down a quart of oil after only 800 miles & I've noticed the engine temp seems to be running a bit hot. I cleaned out the bottle, put in more fresh antifreeze & ran it a couple days & it overheated! And once again there was that oily crud in the bottle. Took it to the Suby dealer & they found nothing wrong (checked compression, checked oil & water presure, checked the engine oil for water & checked the radiator (it was clear)), but just to be safe I told them to clean out the bottle (again), flush the radiator (fluid in there was clear green), and change the thermostat. They did all that and test drove it and everything is fine...except once again there's an oily crud in the coolant bottle!

Oh, BTW, they DID add a bottle of that majic Subaru radiator stop leak - both times - surely THAT's not it? Anyone else have this experience?
Thanks,

[sha_zapple]

Definitly headgaskets. Im surprised the dealer didnt find anything

[Will2]

I agree

[Capuano]

Thanks, I guess you're right. The mechanic at the Subaru Dealership said he's seen where the Suby stop leak worked for over a year & then adding another bottle of Quicksilver or Barsleak kept it together for an additional 10 months. A new head gasket costs $1500 for the whole job. It looks like the stop leak worked for now - no more oil in the last 200 miles - but who knows for how long. I know there's no water in the oil right now, so I figure I'll start saving up & as soon as I see the oil reappear, or another overheat, I'll have the job done. Does that sound like a good plan?

I was wondering if retorquing the heads would help. Any thoughts?

[Capuano]

Originally Posted by sha_zapple

Definitly headgaskets. Im surprised the dealer didnt find anything

Actually, they never even mentioned it as a possibility. I'm the one that brought it up & when I did, the guy got this sympathetic look on his face & said, "It's not always a problem like that...I've seen lots of cases where it was a one-time thing. I would think if it was a head gasket it would rapidly get hot, then cool down quickly as the pressure releases."

[wheeldoc]

My 1990 Legacy sedan is having much the same problem but no oil usage or fluid transfers. It will run fine then the temp will climb to hot and suddenly drop back down even quiker than it got hot. I come up missing coolent and adding a pint or less of distilled water every 2 or 3 days.

[wheeldoc]

Originally Posted by wheeldoc

My 1990 Legacy sedan is having much the same problem but no oil usage or fluid transfers. It will run fine then the temp will climb to hot and suddenly drop back down even quiker than it got hot. I come up missing coolent and adding a pint or less of distilled water every 2 or 3 days.

The radiator, thermisat, hoses, and radiator cap are all new. After replacement the car overheated again and the dealer checked it out. They found nothing wrong with it. This is still going on after 2 weeks.

[Capuano]

My Subaru mechanic (who's no genius) says this is a classic symptom of a blown head gasket. For our sakes, i hope he's wrong. They added a can of majin Subaru stop leak, and so far (~800 miles) no problems. I'm debating whether or not to buy an extended warranty for $1700 that's be good for another 20,000 miles. But that's too much like surrendering to the notion that it is the head gasket going bad, and it will fail before that time.
Cap

[Will2]

I had the problem on my 92 Legacy. Drove it,before any indication of trouble, from Tallahassee to My home here in Michigan with no problems. Jumped in the car a couple of days later and about 4 miles form home it started to heat up. Got back home checked it over. Thought maybe the thermostat was stuck. I dinked around with it for a couple of days. Thermostats, hoses etc. Finally had it hauled to the nearest Subaru dealer which is 45 miles away. And found it was a blown headgasket. It never did show any water in the oil or vis-versa. Never had another bit of trouble with it. Matter of fact my wife drove it back to Tallahassee last fall with no problems.

[freakray]

Blown head gaskets were a common problem in the DOHC engines from Subaru, sounds like you have every symptom of one too.
If the garage you're going is denying the issue, take it elsewhere for a second opinion.

[Capuano]

So I guess it would make sense to buy the extended warranty. It costs $1700 for 48 months & 48,000 miles and covers a lot of ills, but it only covers a blown head gasket up to 100,000 miles on the car (it's got 80,000 on it now) so I wasn't sure. The dealer will pass the inspection on it right now & I suppose a future head gasket job would cost me about $1500 anyhow. Just my luck, though, the head gasket will probably hold for 21,000 more miles. Then again, it doesn't sound like it from reading this forum. Any more comments?
Thanks,
Mark

[SUBARU_TECH]

yes its your head gaskets.dont let it go on to long .not only is there oil in your overflow tank,but worse the coolant is in the oil.you will be washing down the cylinder walls and crank/rod bearing surfaces of oil.repairing it now will save you money if its not to late already.sorry to hear of this thou.

[Capuano]

Originally Posted by SUBARU_TECH

yes its your head gaskets.dont let it go on to long .not only is there oil in your overflow tank,but worse the coolant is in the oil.you will be washing down the cylinder walls and crank/rod bearing surfaces of oil.repairing it now will save you money if its not to late already.sorry to hear of this thou.

Thanks, I'll have to wait until the end of June, which is when the warranty waiting period ends, plus put about 200 more miles on the car (1000 miles/45 day wait) in the meanwhile. The dealer says there is no antifreeze in the oil, and no oil in the radiator, so until he can detect something, I can't turn this in as a warranty repair (gotta have a fluid leak). He still says it's just some sludge that got into the bottle...perhaps a deterioration of the filler tube...so I bought this warranty with a clear conscience that the car was OK. It's now been a couple of weeks, and no more overheating or oil in the water bottle, but last night we did smell AF, and the bottle had come over the top a bit (cap was wet).

[SUBARU_TECH]

please dont let me sway your confidence in your local mechanic.but something doesnt sound right .it is very easy to test for internal leakage of combustion gases in the cooling system.the oil didnt get in the bottle by the filler tube.trust me.a cylinder leakage test can be down,this will show bubbling at the radiator cap.i use a aftermarket funnel that attaches to the radiator top.the wider area of the funnel will show the smaller bubbles as compared to just looking thru the top of radiator.2nd test,i use a tool that is a blue dye that is put in a tube.at the bottom is a fish tank like stone filter.you drain the radiator fumes thru this filter and into the flask.the dye dye will change from blue-green-yellow if combustion fumes are present.the 2.5 dual cam motors are sometimes tricky to detect thou.most of the time you can only get it to act up on a hot engine and only when driving.at the same time you will notice thou that the lower radiator hose will be much cooler in tempurature then the upper hose.good luck.bottom line,he may not want to do the repair since it will now be under warranty (less money in his pocket)then if it were customer pay.but again thats your judgement on your repair facility.

[Capuano]

Originally Posted by SUBARU_TECH

please dont let me sway your confidence in your local mechanic.but something doesnt sound right .it is very easy to test for internal leakage of combustion gases in the cooling system.the oil didnt get in the bottle by the filler tube.trust me.a cylinder leakage test can be down,this will show bubbling at the radiator cap.i use a aftermarket funnel that attaches to the radiator top.the wider area of the funnel will show the smaller bubbles as compared to just looking thru the top of radiator.2nd test,i use a tool that is a blue dye that is put in a tube.at the bottom is a fish tank like stone filter.you drain the radiator fumes thru this filter and into the flask.the dye dye will change from blue-green-yellow if combustion fumes are present.the 2.5 dual cam motors are sometimes tricky to detect thou.most of the time you can only get it to act up on a hot engine and only when driving.at the same time you will notice thou that the lower radiator hose will be much cooler in tempurature then the upper hose.good luck.bottom line,he may not want to do the repair since it will now be under warranty (less money in his pocket)then if it were customer pay.but again thats your judgement on your repair facility.

Actually he DID test the radiator and found no hydrocarbons, plus no water in the oil. That's what is so confusing. Since I have no history of maintenance on this car other than a sticker that says the timing belt was replaced at 64,000 miles, the only thing I can think MIGHT be the case (I should be so lucky) is the oily sludge in the bottle (actually it was up the sides of the bottle and not in the antifreeze) was from an earlier situation that has since been rectified. And maybe the overheating was a sticky thermostat. And maybe the fact that the oil was a quart low after only 800 miles was because they left a quart out when they changed it. Boy, now I really AM dreaming! But I have to say, it's been 2 weeks, and no more sludge in the bottle, the oil level is at the full notch, and the car is running slightly below mid temperature.