1999 Windstar

[denzel13]

My sister-in-law has a 1999 Windstar that is sometimes making a high pitched (like a belt noise) sound when it is started. It makes the noise (really loud) and then sometimes it dies, but it will start again and it may make the noise or it may not. I am working on the car and removed the belt (thought it needed to be replaced), But when I started the car it made the same noise without the belt attached. Which means the noise is not coming from the belt or anything the belt is driving. Is this something internal to the block or the timing components. It is a 3.8 liter engine. It has a balance shaft.

Any thoughts on what this could be?
Thanks,

[12Ounce]

I've read of synchronizer shafts (Cam Position Sensor) lacking grease and making screeching noises.

[denzel13]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I've read of synchronizer shafts (Cam Position Sensor) lacking grease and making screeching noises.

Thanks for responding so quickly, this is really a strange problem.

Would that cause the engine to kill? It makes the noise and then acts like it has a really heavy load on it and then dies.

Thanks
Denzel

[CoachKarl]

My bet is that the tensioner pulley is bad ($20). Next, the idler pulley ($20). Next the Power steering Pump ($150). The pulleys are easy to replaced. You can pinpoint this problem with 3 foot long fuel line hose (or equivilant). With the engine running. 1. Stuff a tissue in one ear. 2. Hold one end of the tube in the other ear. 3. Point the other end of the tube toward this spinning thing and that, VERY CAREFULLY! until the noise seems much louder. That will be the source of your trouble. This really does work. Be careful.

Karl

[12Ounce]

denzel
I would think that the synchronizer might kill the engine if failing. Another possibility is a split vacuum hose ... can screech and can stall the engine.

CoachKarl's suggestion to use a hose as a stethoscope is a good one.

[DRW1000]

I think CoachKarl's stethoscope is a great idea but I think the thread starter stated that the noise happens with the belt off too.

(Just don't want us barking up the wrong tree)

[denzel13]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

I think CoachKarl's stethoscope is a great idea but I think the thread started stated that the noise happens with the belt off too.

(Just don't want us barking up the wrong tree)

Wow you guys are great, thanks to all for responding!
That is correct, by removing the belt I think I elimiated possiblities outside the engine block. The noise is very sporadic and almost always causes a drag on the engine speed usually to the point of killing the engine. The noise is very short in duration if it does not kill the engine. The noise sounds like a belt squealing. It can happen when you are starting the car or when you are driving. It only lasts for a second then it is gone. It may or may not kill the engine. I have heard this noise before in a electric motor whose bushings were dry. This leads me to think it is babbit bushing internal that has lost lubrication or whose diameter has enlarged. Any thoughts? I have never torn into this engine before and I don't want to go any deeper than I need to. Here are some other facts 120k in engine, 3.8 liter. Thanks again for your input.

Denzel

[denzel13]

Originally Posted by denzel13

Wow you guys are great, thanks to all for responding!
That is correct, by removing the belt I think I elimiated possiblities outside the engine block. The noise is very sporadic and almost always causes a drag on the engine speed usually to the point of killing the engine. The noise is very short in duration if it does not kill the engine. The noise sounds like a belt squealing. It can happen when you are starting the car or when you are driving. It only lasts for a second then it is gone. It may or may not kill the engine. I have heard this noise before in a electric motor whose bushings were dry. This leads me to think it is babbit bushing internal that has lost lubrication or whose diameter has enlarged. Any thoughts? I have never torn into this engine before and I don't want to go any deeper than I need to. Here are some other facts 120k in engine, 3.8 liter. Thanks again for your input.

Denzel

You all must be as confused as I am with this problem. Any ideas where I should start?

[DRW1000]

How about using the stethoscope idea to try and pinpoint the source of the noise.

[clerick]

If you are sure it is internal i might suspect somting like a bearing. THe condition you describe is similar to what an old Audi i had did when the oil pressure was low. Once the oil pump was fixed the noise stopped. i assumed that it was a componant that was for some reason starved for lubrication and we had a metal on metal condition. The fact that this corrosponds with the motor killing makes me wonder if it isnt an extreme friction condition... or, like mentioned earlier maybe crank position sensor out of whack. If the sensor was sending bad info the engine might get timed all screwey and kill? But you would think that this would cause other drivability problems.

Does the sound change pitch/volume with RPM? Are the waterpumps on the 3.8 controlled by timing chain or serpentine belt? If it is the timing then i would start with the pump. Cavitation can sound like that, IME.

again, my

[denzel13]

I used the stethoscope to pinpoint the noise to the timing cover. I think it is the balance shaft bearing, does that sound right? Has anyone replace or repaired this part? Is it accessible in frame or does the engine need to be pulled? Does anyone know the part cost and dealer labor costs? Or has anyone done this themselves?

[12Ounce]

I'm still betting on the synchro assembly ... not a big task ... inside/ontop of front cover.