Sway Bars!!!!! civic - need some help!!!

[g--thang]

i have a honda civic 2000 4dr, and i am installing Neuspeed sport springs with Tokico HP shocks....

currently the car has no sway bars front or back..

1) what is more important.. the rear sway bar or the front sway bar???
2) if i get the stock sway bars off a Civic SI, will they be good or will they be not worth it.?????

the cost for the OEM sway bar front is $125.00
the cost for the OEM sway bar rear is $100.00

3) is it worth to get both of them or just the rear????
4) and will the OEM sway make a difference?????.

THANKS ALOT!!

[BullShifter]

A rear sway bar is far more important on a front wheel drive car, but both should be used on a street driven car.

Any sway bars will make a difference comparing to nothing. I would look into aftermarket bars, Eibach, Neuspeed, Suspension Techniques, Hotchkis.

look here - http://www.beaksproducts.com/Products.htm

Stock front with a larger sway works best for me. If you use a larger rear sway I highly rec. beaks reinforcement kits. a rear lower tie bar is also a good idea with a larger rear sway.

[g--thang]

thanks Jackassi
but i heard that anything above 17.5mm will actually risk cracking the sub frame... i dont want to take that chance....

1) what do you think about the stock sway bar off an SIR?? will it improove the handling???

2) and what about a sway bar that is 19mm??

[SilverY2KCivic]

I would NEVER go with anything larger than 17mm for a rear swaybar. I say this from experience. I used to have a 22mm Integra Type-R (that's what they come with stock) on my '00 Civic coupe and even WITH the Beak's kit, the bar still began to rip itself out of the rear subframe. Enough so that I had to have the damage welded to fix it, and also have "1/8th thick steel plates welded on over the damage area to make sure it doean't rip out again. I didn't want to go with the tiny 13mm Si Coupe rear swaybar, so I instead opted to go with the Del Sol VTEC 15mm rear bar. It's not too much bigger, but it's about as big as the 6th gen Civic rear subframe can support and handle without needing reinforcement. Even kits like the Comptech 22mm swaybar/tiebar combo won't prevent anything. Point here is ANY 17-18mm+ sized bar WILL eventually damage the subframe if you make the bar stress the frame to it's limit. I'd play it safe and go with an OEM bar.

Civic Si coupe - 13mm bar
Integra GSR - 14mm bar
Del Sol VTEC 15mm bar

I'd go with either one of those 3, either will work just fine. Pic below of what I had to do to my subframe to get it back to as normal as possible.

[CivicSiRacer]

This is why I went right for the Comptech Sway bar/Strut bar combo. Little bit more expensive but well worth it in the end. I'm glad I didn't put the Progress 22mm bar on my Si back in 2001 when I got it.

[g--thang]

hey silver Y2K

WHERE is your lower rear strut bar??? did you have one when you had the 22mm bar, because thats what the rear lower sturt bar is inteded to prevent !!!!!!!!
i bet that is the reason your frame ripped.

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by g--thang

hey silver Y2K

WHERE is your lower rear strut bar??? did you have one when you had the 22mm bar, because thats what the rear lower sturt bar is inteded to prevent !!!!!!!!
i bet that is the reason your frame ripped.

I used to have one, but me removing it is not why it ripped. You have to understand the dynamics of how the stress on the frame is exurted and ditributed from the bar to the frame. The simple point is that the frame is thin, VERY thin, I'm talking like 20-gauge metal thin. So thin that anythinner and a welding torch would melt right THROUGH it. And actually that isn't the purpose of a lower tiebar anyways, if it was then they wouldn't put them on swaybarless cars. I've mentioned before to CivicSiRacer that even the Comptech combo won't guarantee the frame from ripping, it's just extra protection kinda like a jimmy hat. It's great when it works, but there's still a risk of it tearing and oops! :x I've talked with a guy on another forum that's roommates with a guy that works for the R&D section of the suspension developement team for the racing leg of Honda. They have an EK chassis Civic that road races in a showroom stock class, runs the Comptech bar/lower tie combo and they go through AT LEAST 1 if not 2 subframes per season!! Beak's was kind enough to send me a very detailed email explanation of why my subframe still tore even while running their kit. It's too complicated to explain why it happened in my situation, but if in person you'd most surely nod and say you understand, and understand why a tiebar wouldn't have done even a penny worth of prevention. It's sole purpose is to stiffen up the lower control arm pivot points, NOT to dissipate the force of a swaybar that the chassis isn't even meant to accomidate in the first place. In reality, with stiff enough springs one shouldn't need a swaybar anyways, it's more-less a tool when the other isn't an option.

[Kven]

sorry to hear that happen to you SilverY2kCivic. So is there any way to run a stiffer rear anti-roll reliabally(maybe the Suspension Techniques SpeedTech system?) or is the best option to just stick with a <17mm sway bar with just stiffer springs?

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by Kven

sorry to hear that happen to you SilverY2kCivic. So is there any way to run a stiffer rear anti-roll reliabally(maybe the Suspension Techniques SpeedTech system?) or is the best option to just stick with a <17mm sway bar with just stiffer springs?

Actually I haven't yet to date heard any problems with using Suspension Techniques swaybar kits. They ONLY specialize in suspension, so I'd trust their kits and research into them.

[Motion500]

Wish I had read this years ago. I have a 98 Civic EX with Progress springs and rear sway bar. Yesterday the upper bolt tore out of my subframe.
Any ideas of what I can do to minimize impact on the rest of the subframe and prepare for resale within the next six months? Have looked at Beaks reinforcement kits but they don't seem to match how Progress designed their mounting brackets.

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally Posted by Motion500

Wish I had read this years ago. I have a 98 Civic EX with Progress springs and rear sway bar. Yesterday the upper bolt tore out of my subframe.
Any ideas of what I can do to minimize impact on the rest of the subframe and prepare for resale within the next six months? Have looked at Beaks reinforcement kits but they don't seem to match how Progress designed their mounting brackets.

The Beak's kit is ONLY for OEM style swaybars such as the 22mm ITR bar.