Interesting Oil Reading from a GM Engineer

[TonyMazz]

You may find this interesting reading for those who think Syntetic oil is the only way to go.....follow the writer 'jestal' in this thread....

would be interested in your comments.....

http://p083.ezboard.com/ffjr1300owne...icID=536.topic

[BlazerLT]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Mar26.html

Yip, even with conventional, 3000 mile oil changes are a waste of money, time and resources.

Anyone thinking they are doing something better for their engine by changing it at 3000 miles with standard oil needs to do some research.

[blazee]

Pretty interesting reading, I would like to see what Wolfox has to say about it, he seems to know a lot about oil.

Keep in mind that the guy is a GM engineer. Those are the guys that designed:
the intake gaskets that keep failing
the 97 ignition switches
the hub assemblies that wear out quickly
the ball joints that wear out quickly
the idler arms that wear out quickly
our faulty rad caps
the multifunction switches that fail
...................

All things that require service and make GM extra money. He may also be brainwashed into recommending things that will cause premature failure, too.



**just a little BS for those of you that like conspiracy theories**

[Turbocpe]

Blazee, just wanted to add, it is not always the fault of the engineering, there are things such as "bean counters" that have a considerable amount weight, especially in a corporation such as GM and Ford.

[chcknugget]

Originally Posted by TonyMazz

You may find this interesting reading for those who think Syntetic oil is the only way to go.....follow the writer 'jestal' in this thread....

would be interested in your comments.....

http://p083.ezboard.com/ffjr1300owne...icID=536.topic

That appears to be a motorcycle thread... I used mobil 1 synthetic in my scooter and it seemed to break down just as quickly as the dino oil (only 400kms). Since scooters and motorcycles rev a lot higher (1 or 2 cylinders at 10k+ rpms) I can imagine they use the same 5w30 oil a little bit differently than our v6s. The oil would not be expected to perform the same as in our cars, or at least the difference between synthetic/ dino oil may not be as great with bikes.

[TonyMazz]

Yeah I have been conversing with this guy off line and quite interesting.

I am glad I ran into him as he had some direct insight into the 4.3L and reminds me that since I have OCI 3-4K that the use of so called sludge removers is just another consumer gimmick....with the modern day additives things should be pretty clean....don't waste the money. The modern oils have many detergents and dispersants to keep your motor clean....most on this forum take care of their vehicles and would bet most motors are very clean and maintained.

He said take and look inside the oil fill tube or pcv hole and if you find a light brown haze that's perfectly fine...the odds of build up and sludge are slim to none.....the idea of sludge and grime is an old wives tail fromt he 50's and 60's especially since the oils of the day were far inferior to today's oils.....

..and more encouraging from a guy who designs engines said the 4.3L should easily run 250 K and the probably need head gasket replacements along the way...but should be able to keep going.

Sythetic oil has some advantages, but some think it's nectar from the gods, and while it's cold weather pour properties are better and the tolerance for oxidation are better, I think I will switch to conventional oil in my duramax in the summer time....synthetic in the winter for the viscosity and pour point.

Since it needs 10 quarts, per oil change, I can save a few bucks and buy the summer oil in bulk....

In our quest to find a fix-in-a-bottle it's easy to pour-n-pray and hope that we aren't doing something wrong...but to me..it all comes down to routine periodic maintenance that if maintained with discipline the likely hood of oil related failures are greatly reduced....

In 162K I have HAD to fix one hub, 2 lower ball joints, pittman, idler, front pinion seal, throttle assy, and a sun shell reactor gear assy...

All very reasonable to me as I drive my truck daily and put it away wet....

Thanks

[TonyMazz]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Mar26.html

Yip, even with conventional, 3000 mile oil changes are a waste of money, time and resources.

Anyone thinking they are doing something better for their engine by changing it at 3000 miles with standard oil needs to do some research.

I disagree... replace the oil or replace the motor....cheap insurance....

[wolfox]

Eh, I am no oil guru. I just have experience to speak from. I have had better results with synthetics over the years because of the characteristics that GM tech fellow went into. Face it, many of us do not live out in the sticks, and have mere 5~15 mile commutes to work. Synthetics help and engine in it's most critical phases:

1) Start up: Some synthetics, like Castrol Syntec "creep" - keeping a very light oil film of bearing journals and cylinder walls even when the engine has sat, stone cold for many days. Reduction of start up friction adds exponentially to engine lifetime.

2) Warmed up and running HARD: The film strength of synthetics is far and above better than nearly all organic preparations in the jug. This translates into a protective layer of oil where you need it most when high speeds and heavy loads impose the best chance of bottoming out your wrist and crank bearings - leading to washed-out/dished bearings. Guys that run serious off-road need to look at Synthetics, IMO.

3)Stop & go/short trips: Short trips under a few miles each way to fetch groceries or to sit at your desk in the morning for a cup of abuse before coffee; really stresses oil. Synthetics are resistant to the effects of water and incomplete combustion contaimination caused by a lower temperature engine. Are synthetics proof against that? No, just resistant - they can tollerate this abuse and rough treatment of the engine longer than organic oil based products.

4)Extended drain intervals: However, let me qualify it by saying that you should still swap a fresh filter at about 3.5k miles and top off the oil lost when the filter was unscrewed. At the tail end of what would be your "Light duty" oil change interval (6,500~7,000 according to my Owner's manual) it gets another new filter and a complete oil change. I would not trust even "extended run" synthetic formulations showing up on the shelves lately beyond that in our trucks.

Some organic formulations carry quite beautiful characteristics for our truck engines. Castrol GTX 5w-30 can be had for half the price of Synthetic oils and still carry a remarkable SJ~SM API rating. (I have found some variance on similar looking bottles next to each other on the shelves. READ your API star!) True that organics will not carry the same oxidation, TBN and moisture longevity characteristics as synthetic formulations; but they are pretty close. I remember reading elsewhere that many organic oils need to have a synthetic base in order to meet the more recent, stringent oil needs of modern engines. So the call is yours really.

Read labels, pick up the best possible oil for your cash whenever possible, but my money's on Castrol GTX for the organic, and Mobil-1 for the synthetic side of the house. These are the best, most competitively priced products I have yet to find that I can just get off the shelf. However, I would not push Castrol beyond 5k miles. I have and regularly do push Mobil-1 to the 6.5~7k limit with a filter change (AC-Delco, BTW) at mid-mileage and the old, onery '95 just keeps on crushing rocks and turning heads.

[BlazerLT]

Originally Posted by TonyMazz

Yeah I have been conversing with this guy off line and quite interesting.

I am glad I ran into him as he had some direct insight into the 4.3L and reminds me that since I have OCI 3-4K that the use of so called sludge removers is just another consumer gimmick....with the modern day additives things should be pretty clean....don't waste the money. The modern oils have many detergents and dispersants to keep your motor clean....most on this forum take care of their vehicles and would bet most motors are very clean and maintained.

He said take and look inside the oil fill tube or pcv hole and if you find a light brown haze that's perfectly fine...the odds of build up and sludge are slim to none.....the idea of sludge and grime is an old wives tail fromt he 50's and 60's especially since the oils of the day were far inferior to today's oils.....

..and more encouraging from a guy who designs engines said the 4.3L should easily run 250 K and the probably need head gasket replacements along the way...but should be able to keep going.

Sythetic oil has some advantages, but some think it's nectar from the gods, and while it's cold weather pour properties are better and the tolerance for oxidation are better, I think I will switch to conventional oil in my duramax in the summer time....synthetic in the winter for the viscosity and pour point.

Since it needs 10 quarts, per oil change, I can save a few bucks and buy the summer oil in bulk....

In our quest to find a fix-in-a-bottle it's easy to pour-n-pray and hope that we aren't doing something wrong...but to me..it all comes down to routine periodic maintenance that if maintained with discipline the likely hood of oil related failures are greatly reduced....

In 162K I have HAD to fix one hub, 2 lower ball joints, pittman, idler, front pinion seal, throttle assy, and a sun shell reactor gear assy...

All very reasonable to me as I drive my truck daily and put it away wet....

Thanks

You are being bullshitted, sludge and varnish will slowly develop throughout the oil system especially when you use conventioanl oil.

Cleaning them out everyonce in a while will do wonders for the engine.

How can he explain me doing a flush for 30 mintes with clean oil and the oil drained after coming out blacker than tar?

That is proof that there is sludge in my oil system.

And how can you explain my oil getting four shades darker after 150 miles with the Auto-RX treatment with synthetic oil?

Want proof? Look here:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=385384

You need to stop using one man's OPINION as some sort of automotive gospel.

[BlazerLT]

Originally Posted by TonyMazz

I disagree... replace the oil or replace the motor....cheap insurance....

Do some research bro before you start a unfounded statement like that.

People in germany change their conventional oil every 15,000 miles or 1 year and they have no problems with their engines.

I suggest you do some more reading here to get more informed.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

[TonyMazz]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

You are being bullshitted, sludge and varnish will slowly develop throughout the oil system especially when you use conventioanl oil.

Cleaning them out everyonce in a while will do wonders for the engine.

How can he explain me doing a flush for 30 mintes with clean oil and the oil drained after coming out blacker than tar?

That is proof that there is sludge in my oil system.

And how can you explain my oil getting four shades darker after 150 miles with the Auto-RX treatment with synthetic oil?

Want proof? Look here:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=385384

You need to stop using one man's OPINION as some sort of automotive gospel.

Give me a break !!! I have had several offline conversations with this guy and he has more experience that you and I together....LOL

Far as sludge in your system.....don't drive your oil for 15K change more often!

Hey I thought you were using synthetic anyway....!?!?!?!

Anyway I am only helping folks see a different perspective...that is what this board is all about! The guy knows his stuff, and may pop some of the oil myths that are spewed but that's ok...we are here to learn...right ?

I suggest that folks hop on over to the BOBSTHEOILGUY forum for some more perspective and hopefully an education.....

[TonyMazz]

..and BlazerLT go over to the other forum and tell him he's full of shit...challenge him....it's good to ask questions and learn.

I know I don't know everything, nor pretend but sure am willing to listen to someone who has more experiences than me.....and not call them a bullshitter...

Just a thought....

[BlazerLT]

Originally Posted by TonyMazz

Give me a break !!! I have had several offline conversations with this guy and he has more experience that you and I together....LOL

Far as sludge in your system.....don't drive your oil for 15K change more often!

Hey I thought you were using synthetic anyway....!?!?!?!

Anyway I am only helping folks see a different perspective...that is what this board is all about! The guy knows his stuff, and may pop some of the oil myths that are spewed but that's ok...we are here to learn...right ?

I suggest that folks hop on over to the BOBSTHEOILGUY forum for some more perspective and hopefully an education.....

OMG! One guy on the street I talked to said he was a biologist and said that water is bad for the body so everyone, STOP DRINKING WATER!

Face it, you are making one man's opinion some sort of gospel and now you have spread it into my auto-rx experience log as well.

Tell your "expert friend" to make a thread calling Auto-RX bullshit.

To date he has not because he knows he will be squashed by everyone with test results absolutely destroying him.

If he is so strong against it, why hasn't he spoke out yet?

Or is he a closet Auto-RX critic without the guts to state what he believes.

YOU NEED TO GET MORE INFORMED AND STOP BEING SO GULLABLE AND TAKING ONE MAN'T OPINION AS THE TRUTH.

JUST BECAUSE HE WORKS AT GM DOESN'T MAKE HIM BRIGHT.

LOOK AT THE CPI INJECTION SYSTEM. EEEK!

[Turbocpe]

BlazerLT, may I ask what your experience is, and what your day job is? You may think it is irrelevant, but it is not.

You suggesting that you being a trained and certified fluid power and pneumatic technologist also means you have more experience on this subject?

I take it that you have more experience and time with this type of data and information than this person, who works in the field?

A little hard to dismiss one's knowledge who works with this type of data and information, on what seems to be a regular basis, right?

By the way, knowing a few Ford and GM engineers in the past, I've seen this. People who do not have as much experience and time on the subject as the engineer, still question the engineer's knowledge, nevermind the fact that the engineer is exposed to the data and information on a regular basis and has more experience and time than anyone in the public. By the way, BlazerLT, I'm talking in general, not you specifically. The link provided shows people who agree and disagree for various reasons.

I'm not saying engineers are Gods, neither are us, but the ones that I know, aren't your average guy. I guess it's human nature for us to try to make everyone on the same level. I'm sure people would like to think that they have more knowledge than an engineer in a large corporation who works in the field with such information on a regular basis. Just human nature.

[Turbocpe]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

YOU NEED TO GET MORE INFORMED AND STOP BEING SO GULLABLE AND TAKING ONE MAN'T OPINION AS THE TRUTH.

Some people immediately think that you are a God, BlazerLT, but I don't see you saying the above in regard to that?

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

LOOK AT THE CPI INJECTION SYSTEM. EEEK!

You can't totally blame engineers for such issues. Sure they're not perfect and there has been mistakes. But in a large corporation, they aren't free to desgin and do whatever they wish. Have you heard of the term "bean counters"? You can't totally blame them for those types of issues when they aren't in total control.

I would also have to say that such people have to be "bright". They aren't your average street person. They get paid good money to have degrees and knowledge.

I'm not trying to argue, because it is pointless because I know that you hard headed