5 Minute Shut Down

[RayQix]

This is now a frustration for about the last week or so.

After about 5 minutes of running my 92 Saturn SC, (DOHC, Air, PS/PB/Cruise/5spd transaxle) it starts to sputter and die. This isn't a bad thing except when i'm driving and it happens. Most of the time due to the colder Michigan weather, i've let it warm up before "gettin in and going" but even when I do that, it sputters & stalls in the driveway. It will SOMETIMES restart, sometimes not.

I have a "key shaped thingy" (aint that technical?) to connect the two leads in the Diagnostic plug under the dash, but i'm not sure how to read the lights (the Check Engine flashed 12 a couple times) but i'm not sure if i'm just not reading it right and unfortunately, do not have a PCM reader.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


--RayQix--

[phattyc75]

Probly the ECTS. Its on the transmission side of the head underneath the radiator hose. There are 2 sensors in that general vincinity, and it should be the lower of the two sensors. Use a deep socket and pull the sensor out. The end of the sensor should be a smooth plastic dome, and if it has any cracks in it, replace it. This is an extremely common problem, and makes the engine run rich after it is warm. If this is the problem, check your spark plugs, because they probly have been fouled and need to be replaced. You can pick up a sensor for about 15 bucks at your local auto parts store, or find it online for around 10. When you pull the sensor out, you will loose some coolant, so it wouldn't hurt to put a rag underneath the sensor before you pull it.

[RayQix]

Just to confirm, this also applies to a MANUAL trans car?

I'll check it out & see what i find.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

[phattyc75]

Roger that, good budy... all the 1.9 liter engines have the ECTS there.

[phattyc75]

Oh...I almost forgot...if the ECTS is the problem, you will need to reset the memory in the ECM. To do that, either disconnect the battery, or pull the PCMB fuse in the underhood fuse box.

[RayQix]

I looked under the hood and there are TWO connectors that are similar. I've disconnected those plugs before in changing both the Radiator (Aug 2004) and Cooling Fan (May 2004). Just to confirm, its one of those and it would be the lower one or upper one, or check them both?

BTW: I took it to AutoZone to have them check the "Check Engine" light fault and they told me it was a Short in the Fuel Pump or Electrical Line for said same Fuel Pump. Is that also a possibility as the Fuel pump is $140 there (for the part) plus the install.

- RQ -

[phattyc75]

The ECTS is the lower of the two sensors. The fuel pump could easily be the problem, but check the ECTS first. The ECTS is cheap and easy, and the fuel pump is not on either count. If the ECTS looks fine, check the relay for the fuel pump before you do anything else. The relay is in the fuse box by the passenger seat. Look at the labels to find out which one it is. Your Chilton manual should give you an idea of how to check it. Just look under the fuel section.

[RayQix]

Okay...after having to go dn purchase a new 13mm deep-well socket...
I pulled the ECTS out...but not before I damaged the "other" 13mm sensor. The ECTS "dome" looks like it has a round about-to-be-chipped look to it. Would that cause the problem? Again, it's almost like clockwork...sputter then shutdown. After i let it sit for a minute or three, it runs just fine until i let it cool-down again (approx 1-3 hours or so).

Lemme know...and THANK YOU so very much!

-- Ray --

[phattyc75]

If there aren't any visible cracks in the sensor, then you can also check it using a multimeter. The resistances you should see across the pins on the sensor are as follows:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by mysatilac

Here are the resistances for the ECTS or IAT in various tempertures
-20 degrees F________39K-53K OHMs
0 degrees F__________21K-27K OHMs
60 degrees F_________3.9K-4.5K OHMs
120 degrees F________1.0K-1.1K OHMs
160 degrees F________430-480 OHMs
200 degrees F________215-235 OHMs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can also turn the key to the run position and check the voltage across the plug. You should see about 5 volts. If all of this still checks out then the sensor is most likely good, and we need to start examining other possibilities.

[RayQix]

Thats what i meant tho, the "round" one looks like its got a crack in it that goes all the way around.

lemme know

[mysatilac]

If it's cracked, replace it.
Good use of $10
And almost definitely your problem, do a search, you'll see how many problems a bad ECTS will cause

[RayQix]

I dont know if its just today or what...someone else posted a similar problem on here...just FYI...

[mysatilac]

Not to be offensive in any way,
but like one outta every four posts on this forum is about the ECTS, but no one ever bothers to search, they all think that they have there own special probelms...

But we're always willing to repost and to examine each problem individually, and tell you all the same thing,
Check/Change your ECTS, it causes poor idle and other problems

[RayQix]

Okay...i've now replaced both the Temp Sensor and the Temp Switch.

Now the car runs for less than 2 minutes and quits.

I checked the Code and it comes up with only 12. I can hear the Fuel Pump and the Fuel Pump relay working, so i dont believe that it would be either of those, however, i'm not sure (obviosly).

I did pull the Positive Battery terminal off the battery to make sure the PCM reset itself, but that didnt' make a difference.

Any suggestions?

[sierrap615]

don't trust autozone, its not the fuel pump.

your problem is the CPS(crankshaft position sensor). it tends to first fail when hot. with no crankshaft position signal the computer doesn't know when to inject fuel or wwhen to fire the spark plugs. it also rarely throws a code because there is no difference (in the PCM's mind) from a bad sensor and a engine that is just not moving.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...p/photo/14836/

its tucked up above the starter, go from underneth.

note the retaining bolt. not sure what size, guessing maybe 10mm or 8mm