What Happened??

[Twizted_3KGT]

What happened to all the sports cars??! It used to be every manufacturer had a worthy sports car (Supra, 3kgt, 300zx, Stealth, Firebird, Camaro, Rx-7) all of which were far superior to anything else in their price range. So wtf is going on lately, all the good ones are gone and all there is is 4 banger turbo's scootin around...why no 350's and twin turbo 6 cylinders anymore???

Obviously I don't mean anything above like $35k-40k when new.

[shawnwilliams]

Prob high gases prices

[Jimster]

There are plenty left.

Some off the top of my mind inculde:

S2000
M3
350Z
Crossfire SRT-6
RX8
Mustang GT
Monaro/GTO
G35 Coupe



etc.

[kman10587]

They died because of a dwindling sports car market, a problem that wasn't helped at all by the rise of the SUVs. Modern emissions and fuel economy concerns will prevent such cars from ever coming back. The V8's are still kicking, but don't hold your breath for any twin-turbo six-cylinder monsters. However, the STi and the Evo make about as much power as the turbo sports cars did back then, so it all works out.

[drunken monkey]

part of it is down to the manufacturers realising that people are more affected by badge snobbery than they first thought.

they can all make the expensive sports car (supra, skyline, rx-7) but they will cost the consumer more than their respective badges usually command.
i mean, when people talk abut buying a £50,000 sports car, would you say porsche or nissan?
as good as the skyline is, it isn't by any stretch of as good as the 911.....

talking of price ranges.
remember that these cars weren't exactly bargains when new, not really the best in their price range and they weren't exactly shining examples of high quality, super well built cars.
but of course, being that slightly bit cheaper than their german counterparts kinda made it acceptable.

in today's market, people want both the performance AND the quality of build and materials and the question of cost still plays a high part on whether or not the car sells.
£30,000 seems to be an acceptable price for that sort of car from the japanese manufacturers, hence the 350Z and Evo and sti all hovering around (or below) that price mark.

cars like the skyline and nsx stand out as they are two extremes of the group, one being a costly hand built aluminium car, the other being a hi-tech marvel using more kit that nasa used to land on the moon.... (or not as the case may be).
in that respect, £60-70 for the nsx is actually 'cheap' and £50,000 for the skyline is a definite bargin.
until you notice that a GT3 is around £70,000 and an M3 is cheaper than the skyline.....

which brings us back to that £30,000 mark being an acceptable price for a japanese sports car.
however, people being the greedy sods that we are want everything for that £30,000.
they want performance AND quality build materials.
at the moment, it seems like the car manufacturers are putting all the performance that they can for that £30,000 and then seeing what's left to kit out the insides.

this is all in part to the switch to a more global approach. those (japanese) cars you mention were initially only ever sold in japan. they only became really popular outside of japan after (ahem) gran turismo (in the uk at least.... we had a really big import market in those cars for about two years after the game was released). this lead to the manufacturers 'importing' their own cars to compete with the greys.
(remember the 50 official UK R33 GTRs?)

that switch to global markets means that cars have to fulfil many more restricitons that was responsible for the end of the previous generation of cars
(the rx-7 was withdrawn due to it's failing of noise emissions as was the 300zx i think....).

they will be back....
at the moment, the car manufacturers are still trying to figure out ways of cleaning up their engines without compromise and that includes various turbo set-ups.

as the others have mentioned, the 350z is a cracking car, as is the rx-8 (which i think is an underpriced car......), the forthcoming GTR is going to be a turbo'd car, not to mention things like the ever popular rumours of mazda and their turbo renesis.....

remember, cars don't happen over night.
despite what the kids will say, making a car isn't as simple as 'saying' bolt a 3.0 litre V6 with twin titanium garrets with ceramic blades to a bonded-extruded aluminium tub chassis, running a rear trans-axle through a gertrag gear box, sitting on unequal length double wishbones with coil-overs with anti-roll bar, then test car on the 'ring.....

it took honda years to get from idea to actual production of the NSX.
the RX-8 was in concept form arbout 8 years before we ever saw a working model.
drawings for the 350 z were dated 1996 if i recall correctly.

[Twizted_3KGT]

Holy crap dude, you just wrote a book!! and seeing how you know so much about it, im gonna have to believe all of that lol. I was just wondering why the 350z didn't come w/ an optional turbo, same w/ RX-8, G35...it seems like those cars were meant to be turbocharged and they didnt bring them here with it. Which you already explained why, so no need to again. I think it sucks though, those would be awesome machines, but now they're only slightly above average.

[drunken monkey]

it isn't as simple as bolting on the turbo to the engine, not to mention that pedestrian safety is now an added concern.
the turbo car's biggest failing when it comes to pedestrian safety is the radiator at the front (big metal thing very close to point of impact).

the 350 doesn't really need a turbo as it kicks out around 280 bhp anyway (same-ish as the old turbo cars) and more importantly, 270lb/ft of torque (marginally more than an M3 and just slightly less than a 360M).
the 350Z is more than just slightly above average....

adding a turbo to it would add cost to a car that doesn't really need either.

in the case of the RX-8, there's no turbo because the engine is still relatively new AND as someone else pointed out, the sportcar market is still a bit of a minefield, especially for 'non-premium' brands.
if mazda sank all their money into making a turbo RX-8 from the go and no one was interested, they wouldn't have made a non-turbo model to try and find a market.
how-ever, because they've done the non turbo car first, they can add a turbo to the range (RX-7 or RX-8) more easily.
besides, the renesis engine would have to be driven very gently to produce 20mpg... i'd hate to imagine how much a turbo renisis would drink.
AND don't forget, the RX_7 is a very special car to mazda.
they really don't want to get it wrong, which goes in part to the RX-8 NOT being the successor to it. instead it is a new niche car (four door coupe with almost four useful seats) instead of a pure two seater coupe.

i'm not entirely sure what the G35 is.
i keep thinking it's the non-gtr skylines.
if that's the case, then i should remind you that the skyline is a range of cars that go from rear wheel drive family cars with NA engines up the full fledge GTR with a GTS inbetween-ish.

[993cc]

Originally Posted by kman10587

They died because of a dwindling sports car market, a problem that wasn't helped at all by the rise of the SUVs. Modern emissions and fuel economy concerns will prevent such cars from ever coming back.

As opposed to the SUV's ?


Yes I agree that SUVs have taken over a large part of the sportscar market (not just in America) as the "in fashion" accessory to stroll around but certainly not because SUVs are more ..economical! ...Meanwhile people who bought sportscars for what they are and not for they image they portray continue to do so...

[Twizted_3KGT]

Yeah the G35 is the NA Skyline basically, it's what they imported here in the States b/c Skylines aren't allowed apparantly. You sure do know a lot about this stuff, I guess I asked in the right forum! Thanks for all that info, helps me understand better.

[drunken monkey]

i don't know much.....
the stuff i typed is just general things that you pick up after years of following cars from concept to rolling model to production car.

going back to the RX-8.
that was first revealed to us under the name of RX-01 that they said was just a mock body design to show general direction and that the important thing was the engine deveoplement.
a couple of years later we saw it again looking slightly different under the name of RX-VOLVE (or something like that) and it was assumed to be a RX-7 replacement.
it finally turned up as an RX-8 concept showcasing the 4 doors and four seats BUT at the same time, rumours began about the RX-7 name being kept for something more special (2 door, 2 seat coupe)
NOW the RX-8 has been out for quite a while now and we're still only just hearing RX-7 rumours (at least rumours of the turbo renesis that suggests a RX-7 might be on its way...)

same goes for the honda S2000.
we first saw that in 1995 as the SSM concept and it made an apppearance for the next few years before dissappearing and reappearing as the S2000 that we all know and (nearly all) love.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Jimster

There are plenty left.

Some off the top of my mind inculde:

S2000
M3
350Z
Crossfire SRT-6
RX8
Mustang GT
Monaro/GTO
G35 Coupe



etc.

sports car
n.
An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.

Well the RX8, Mustang, GTO, M3, ang G35 are out because they all have a back seats. You forgot though the greatest of all sports cars though, the Corvette. To me though it's hard to look at a S200, Crossfire, or 350Z and seem them on the same level as the Corvette. After thinking about it, it makes sense though.

[drunken monkey]

that is a daft definition.
standard carrera has four seats.
F1 has three.
neither are designed for racing.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

that is a daft definition.
standard carrera has four seats.
F1 has three.
neither are designed for racing.

You're talking about the Porshe Carrera GT right? If so it's a two seater. Also, many would consider these two to be exotics and nothing close to a sports car.

Though the F1 wasn't designed for racing it could do it. If you look at the engineering then you'd see many racing designs and equipment went into the creating of it. The same also goes for Porshe, Ferrari, or whoever else makes these high end cars.

[drunken monkey]

standard carrera.