2005 SV6 - Power Sliding Door

[CanadaRob]

Purchased 2005 (RWB - Canada Only) Pontaic Montana SV6 (options group 1SB) in March 05'.

Problem with the passenger power sliding door started on Day 2. First noticed when door was attempting to close - motor located in the rear wheel housing continued to run after the door had closed. Door would kick back open after 3 to 7 seconds of motor continuously running. Before we could take SV6 to Dealer, went for Easter dinner. After showing off new van, we start 45 minute drive home. As we leave the van is "chiming/dinging" like there's a door open. We stop before we're out of driveway to investigate. No visible indication on the dash - all doors are completely shut. I put my new SV6 in drive and there is a "low tone" emitted, as I step on the gas, it changes to a high pitched "dinging" - still no visual indicators. Long story shot - very nerve racked after 45 minute drive home. Go to Dealer next day. Adjustment made and new kicker plate installed? - "dinging" stopped. Same night, "dinging" starts again - same symptoms as above. Next morning - back at dealer. Dealer says GM has told them to replace motor as it appears the gearing is not correct in the motor??? Now I'm in rental van!!! Motor comes next day - wrong motor!!! Have the van back for weekend but with no power door, waiting on correct motor.

Will follow up with results in future - just wanted to know if anyone else had experienced this with their new Montana SV6 and what was the fix. Little frustrating in our first week of ownership. First new vehicle we have ever purchased.

Other than above - WE LOVE OUR NEW SV6 - All the extras are awsome - DVD player, remote start, 2nd row captains chairs, etc - It also has that distinct "Pontiac" feel.

No Flickering lights or "whistling" - but... Should the alternator be changed by GM on this van regardless?

[1999montana]

Originally Posted by CanadaRob

... Now I'm in rental van!!! Motor comes next day - wrong motor!!! Have the van back for weekend but with no power door, waiting on correct motor...

With all due respect, are you actually RENTING a van or is GM picking up the cost of a ride under the 3-year warranty?

[CanadaRob]

Of course GM paid.

[Flatrater]

I understand how you feel and I would be just as upset as you are. You will be recieving a survey in the mail from GM and you have a fill in the blank area for your comments. Let GM know about your problem but please be kind to the dealership as it isn't all there fault. GM built the van and not the dealership.

The SV6 is a new body style and it will have some bugs in it. I am not sure of the power sliding door setup since i haven't dealt with one yet. I have driven several of them and I do like the ride and feel.

To me it sounds like the door is not latching or the modules are not seeing the door latch. If the door doesn't latch the module will command the door to open and if the door is not closed the chime will go off letting you know its not closed properly.

Give the dealer the time to fix the van right. SOmetimes we have a problem getting parts for new cars, trucks or vans. I have parts ordered for my customers and sometimes it takes a month to get the part. Recently I waited 2 weeks to get a sunroof switch for the new G6.

[1999montana]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

... Let GM know about your problem but please be kind to the dealership as it isn't all there fault. GM built the van and not the dealership.

I agree.

One of the service writers in the dealership where I worked for 2 years had a hard time taking abuse from customers who just 'wanted it fixed right'.

He used to want to say, (but didn't that I know of) "Look! I didn't make it and I didn't fix!..."

On another note however, WRT different body; - different problems, I watched in hoarer as a tech destroyed the rear mount for the plastic color-coded trim that covers up the track in the left sliding door (the bracket is hidden behind the rear brake light assembly) because he didn’t know it was there!

How long had vans like ours been out by then you ask? - about 3 model years!

So, sometimes it just boils down to good training and a desire to do the job right regardless of flat-rate time guides.

[CanadaRob]

Actually the dealer has been great and we've actually laughed about it. (laughter's the best medicine) I understand that this is out of the dealers control. In fact the guy working on it is just about as frustrated as I am...see update below...

2nd motor arrived. Tech disassembled all again only to learn that again the wrong motor had arrived. Back together it went although this time we agreed they should leave the motor out so that they can match it to the 3rd that will be coming. The GM Tech Support Line has said the next motor coming will be the correct motor. 3rd time lucky eh!

Yes, I will fill in the survey for sure and understand the bugs but how long has the SV6's predecessor been around... Years.

I will update with results.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by 1999montana

On another note however, WRT different body; - different problems, I watched in hoarer as a tech destroyed the rear mount for the plastic color-coded trim that covers up the track in the left sliding door (the bracket is hidden behind the rear brake light assembly) because he didn’t know it was there!

How long had vans like ours been out by then you ask? - about 3 model years!

So, sometimes it just boils down to good training and a desire to do the job right regardless of flat-rate time guides.

I agree with you this business is full of butchers and hacks. Dealerships are full of them since they are good for the profit margin of dealers. Most dealerships will have one or two good techs who care about fixing cars. The rest are in it for the money they make ripping of people.

The flat-rate or what I call the flat-rape system is broken. But you have to understand a dealer techs makes no money unless he is changing parts. We do not make money diagnosising a problem. We don't get paid to road test a car. If we are not replacing a part we are not making money. The most I get to find and locate a problem on a car is 18 minutes of pay. I doubt most people can find a problem in that amount of time. We don't get paid to explain or to help out a customer. I have worked a 40 hour work week only to make a 20 hour paycheck. It sucks to only get paid for half my time. If I work on your car and you come back 11 months later I have to fix that problem for no pay. But I do care about what I do, I want to fix the problems. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here helping people. I wouldn't spend time on the phone answering questions or standing outside helping people with there problems.

As for training the only training we get is on the job. When a new product rolls out of the factory I have to learn on the fly. The salesman know more about the new products way before we even see them. The salesman get fancy walk arounds, drive arounds, seminars we techs get nothing but broken cars we have to figure out. We do have some training but usually we are working on those cars for years before we get the training. New product training doesn't exsist.

As for the 3 year old model. Look the Montana has been out since 1998 and I have yet to do everyting on one. There are plenty of things I have yet to do on the Montana. Now since I work on Pontiacs, Buicks and GMC, I have to know everything about every model and every year which is impossible. Asking me to know how to remove every single part on 3 divisions with at least 6 models covering 10 years is expecting alot out of me. After doing this for 14 years I still break things but if I break something I make sure I fix it or replace it and that the customer knows about it.

A word of advice for anyone taking a car to the dealership find out who is the best tech and request him to work on your car. Ask about who is trained and request them. Ask to speak to the tech and see if they will come out and talk to you.


BTW those surveys you fill out. We know what you write and how you rated us. These scores affect me and my paycheck. These scores get the attention of GM. If I fix your car right grade me as completely satisfied anything less takes away from me. Grading me satisfied hurts me, this reduces my grades.

[1999montana]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

...I agree with you this business is full of butchers and hacks. Dealerships are full of them since they are good for the profit margin of dealers. Most dealerships will have one or two good techs who care about fixing cars. The rest are in it for the money they make ripping of people.....The flat-rate or what I call the flat-rape system is broken....

I meant no disrespect to techs in general and if you took exception to my comment, I understand.

The way cars are repaired by skilled and unskilled techs using a flat-rate model that EVERY manufacturer uses to pay warranty is at the heart of the problem. I think you have alluded to this previously.

Customers should not have to be placed in a position where the only way they can get it fixed RIGHT is to keep bringing it back until it does get fixed. The issue with flat-rate is only one contributing factor.

Those other issues that you state; - profit margins and those just in it for the money are the reality as well. Makes you wonder how much a car or truck would cost if you could buy it WITHOUT the warranty. Believe me, that component of the cost is significant! I know - I used to work with GM for 12 years.

The structure in place today ultimately is bad for the manufacturer and first and foremost for the dealership as well. The conclusion most customers reach is that 'they don't have a clue' and in some cases that is true.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by 1999montana

I meant no disrespect to techs in general and if you took exception to my comment, I understand.

The way cars are repaired by skilled and unskilled techs using a flat-rate model that EVERY manufacturer uses to pay warranty is at the heart of the problem. I think you have alluded to this previously.

Customers should not have to be placed in a position where the only way they can get it fixed RIGHT is to keep bringing it back until it does get fixed. The issue with flat-rate is only one contributing factor.

Those other isuues that you state; - profit margins and those just in it for the money are the reality as well. Makes you wonder how much a car or truck would cost if you could buy it WITHOUT the warranty. Believe me, that component of the cost is significant! I know - I used to work with GM for 12 years.

The structure in place today ultimately is bad for the manufacturer and first and foremost for the dealership as well. The conclusion most customers reach is that 'they don't have a clue' and in some cases that is true.

No offense taken the truth is the truth. As long as you know there are honest hard working techs out there who want to fix your car right. Not all of us are hacks.

Many times during the week I am clueless on how to find and fix a problem, but as long as I have a manual I can figure it out. If I know how the system works I can find the problem. My biggest gripe on the manuals is the amount of mistakes I see. Sometimes we are on our own to figure out the problem. Between the mistakes in the manuals and the lack of information suppiled by GM, the lack of any real training leaves us out in the wind getting beat up by the owners.

An example for you to understand what I go thru. I am the tech who fixes all the Onstar problems, no other tech is allowed to fix them. But Onstar has been around since 1997 but we have 6 different generations of Onstar. I have dealt with problems and had to argue with the engineers to fix the car right. we don't have enough info on Onstar to fix it on our own, we need to call the engineeres. I can't even order a part unless the engineer allows me to order it.

[1999montana]

Well said.

CanadaRob, with all this preaching going on, did you finally get the door fixed and operational again?

[CanadaRob]

The van is actually at the dealer today. The 3rd motor that came is the correct motor (yeehaa). Installing it this afternoon (04/07)

I will follow up with operational details early next week.

thanks to everyone for all the information and assistance.

[CanadaRob]

Monday 4/11 - Power Sliding door is operating smoothly. No problems to report after numerous uses over past weekend.

FYI - Thanks again - CanadaRob