Looking for educated advice.

[351wStang]

As some of you know I am building a 1989 351w. I took the block and crank to the machine shop this week so it wont be long before I will be putting this motor together. I already have a 750cfm Edelbrock Performer carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap 351w intake, and Edelbrock's Performer RPM heads. I had been planning on running an Edelbrock Performer RPM hydro roller cam (.520/.520 lift and 227*/234* @ .050). But I emailed Edelbrock to make sure it would work in my 351 since it is only listed for 289-302. They emailed me back saying that the cam would not work for my 351w, due to the different firing order. I know that 289-302 cams are interchangeable with 351w cams as long as you use the firing order that the cam is designed for but I guess this one for some reason is not. So since my heads have valve springs rated for .575 lift I wanted to keep about the same cam so I started shopping. Comp Cams has a hydraulic roller cam for 351w that is .513/.529 lift and 230*/236* @ .050. This cam is supposed to be designed for 2000-6000 rpms. I hadent planned on turning this motor past 6k anyway since it is a street motor that I will take to the track every now and then. So my question is do you think this cam will give me what I am looking for? I would like to hit mid-high 11's in the quarter but that may just be a dream. I am hoping for around 400rwhp. Not sure how close to that I will get. At the moment I am planning of a TCI Streetfighter C4 and the matching converter. Also since this is a street car I dont want to run much more than 10:1 compression and I'm planning on 373 gears in a 8.8 rear. So what do you think? Will I get what I am hoping for? Any advice? Things to change, add, or subtract?

[boosted331]

With performer RPM heads, a dual plane intake and that cam you will not hit 400 RWHP out of a 351 through a C4, I can tell you that right now. Here's a rundown of a 347 I had running for a while. 11:1 compression, AFR 205 heads, 232/240 @ .050 .563/.584 lift 110 LSA hydro roller, victor Jr. intake, 750 holley, 1" spacer, kooks 1 3/4 long tubes, 3" exhaust dumped, and a world class T5. That made 430 RWHP on pump gas. More compression, more cam, bigger intake, bigger heads, and a light T5 and it made 30 RWHP more than you want to make. I think that setup with the 230/236 cam would make a nice street combo but I wouldn't expect it to make more than 350 RWHP through a C4.

[351wStang]

Originally Posted by boosted331

With performer RPM heads, a dual plane intake and that cam you will not hit 400 RWHP out of a 351 through a C4, I can tell you that right now. Here's a rundown of a 347 I had running for a while. 11:1 compression, AFR 205 heads, 232/240 @ .050 .563/.584 lift 110 LSA hydro roller, victor Jr. intake, 750 holley, 1" spacer, kooks 1 3/4 long tubes, 3" exhaust dumped, and a world class T5. That made 430 RWHP on pump gas. More compression, more cam, bigger intake, bigger heads, and a light T5 and it made 30 RWHP more than you want to make. I think that setup with the 230/236 cam would make a nice street combo but I wouldn't expect it to make more than 350 RWHP through a C4.

Lol I was hoping you would read this thread boosted, you have opened my eyes alot in the past. So thanks for that. Edelbrock says they made 400hp with a 351 rpm heads/intake, hydro flat tap cam, 9.5:1, and a 750. Now I'm sure thats a sales pitch just like their dreamworld 1500-6500 rpm band. So if I ran a 5 speed and a victor jr would I have a better chance you think? Thanks again. I just dont want to get into changing valve springs and all. I dont have any valve train components yet, so a bigger cam is still very possibly, any suggestions?

[SkylineUSA]

Edelbrock said they made that much power with that combo, no way in hell!

You want a N/A no matter what, right? Pump gas, what octane? Increase that compression to 10.5 to one at a min, you have aluminum heads, you can get a way with it. I have a friend running 11.2 on pump gas, with almost the exact same engine combo that you have, except his cam is only 220/220 500/500 112 lobe sep. He is pushing around 350 to wheels, but he has a top loader.

There is only 3 ways to really increase power, bigger cam, which for the street I would not go any bigger than 230/237 550/550 112, I do not like the higher lifts because of the stress it puts on the top end. More compression, which you can adjust with timing to a point, or more volume.

400rwhp is a tall order, what are you willing to do to get it? 350 to wheels is a lot of power, you could alway throw a little N2O to get you there

[boosted331]

One thing you have to keep in mind about their dynos is I would bet money that is running no accesories with an electric water pump, and STD corrected. For shits and giggles because I'm bored as crap at work I plugged in roughly that 347 combo I told you about. Simulating power steering, a mechanical fan and water pump, and SAE corrected it said 531 HP and 487 Lb-ft. Not changing anything on the combo except for simulating no accesories but an electric water pump and an STD correction factor it gave 578 HP and 518 Lb-ft. You can manipulate a dyno to skew the results in your favor big time, although running without accessories is almost always done, it doesn't always give a true idea of how much power you're making on the street. If you will sway away from the N/A side, that combo you described with something like an F-cam (224/224 .512/.512 114 LSA) and an S-trim would make 500 RWHP reliably without complaint.

[SkylineUSA]

I am using an F303 with 1.72, so it becomes a little more 351w friendly 228/228 550/550 114, would suggest if you go that route, get some 1.7s.

[351wStang]

I thought about it today and have considered about a 75hp shot of n20. But I have been wanting to go FI for a while now. I just dont know enough about forced induction at all to know what I'm doing. What does it take to turbo or supercharge a carb'd engine? Can I go with a turbo or supercharger useing my 750cfm Edelbrock Performer carb thats still in the box? If you would be willing to show, tell, explain a FI setup with everything I would need to be reliable enough to drive on the street, and tell or teach me how to use it on a carb'd engine I would seriously persue it. Also if you have any used parts to part out that I would need I would be interested. Thanks again.

[SkylineUSA]

I am going blow through, its a lot cheaper, and easier to tune.

www.turbomustangs.com is an awesome site to read up on it, and they have a complete break down on how to build your own carb, but I am going to buy a CSU carb.

If your going turbo, the wider the lobe sep, the better. F cam is perfect, or I should say pretty darn good for an off the shelf cam.

[351wStang]

Any sites with good pictures and details of what I need and why I need it for a S-trim or other on a carb'd 351w? Thanks for the turbo site skyline.

So do I just need a blow thrue carb, carb hat with piping directly from the blower, and a conical filter on the inlet side of the blower? Or is there much more to it than that?

[SkylineUSA]

Also Boost reference fuel pressure regulator 1:1, an Aeromotive A1000 and that is it.

Read up on the carb section, that is what I did. You can get within 15% of an EFI for mpg, and spend a whole lot less for parts and tuning.

I like the idea of changing jets again, like on my Boss, for tuning rather than having to go hook the darn thing up to a computer and spending money out the butt for the same result, or close to it.


http://superiorairflow.com/

http://www.ronsraceshop.com/136/1000...s%20Unlimited/

http://www.csucarbs.com/

[351wStang]

Thanks again for your help skyline. So if I go with a Vortech S-Trim blower how much am I looking to spend for everything I need to complete a reliable FI combo? Will my duel plane intake be sufficient or do I need to get a Vic Jr?

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by 351wStang

Thanks again for your help skyline. So if I go with a Vortech S-Trim blower how much am I looking to spend for everything I need to complete a reliable FI combo? Will my duel plane intake be sufficient or do I need to get a Vic Jr?

I am going Vic Jr, the others will work, but most of the guys on there like the single planes for some reason.

About $950 for hat and carb already set up for your engine, should just have to play with the jets, and if you have problems, you can call CSU and they will walk you through anything to get you going, customer support like you would not believe.

S-Trim, well that depends if you buy new or not, but with a 351, I would go with a T-Trim, but that is up to you.

Regulator, and running fule lines about $300, fuel pump $250, intake $250, and a box of jets $45, pumps, power valvles, little stuff like that. Also I have not read up on the distributer, but a mech advance would be the way to go, I am not sure if the vac adv will work, but like I said I have not looked into that yet. I am still gathering parts myself.

[351wStang]

Why T-Trim over S-Trim? what are the differences? When I'm shopping for a blower do I need to look for a kit or just a blower? Also how much compression do I need? My machine shop will be calling any day now and he's been bugging me about buying some mahle pistons. I was thinking $400 forged pistons instead of $650 but we will see.

[SkylineUSA]

Look on the Vortech web site, it gives a breakdown of all the trim modles. S-Trim will work, but the T has a little more volume, a little more effecient, and can boost a little higher.

Compression, that depends on what gas you can get and boost that you want, with my S-trim I can run 13lbs at 12* advance with 93oct. To give you an idea. I run that on hypers.

I thought you wanted to stay N/A?

If you do go with a VORTECH, get the cogs that have teeth, not the ribs, the ribs will slip. I have an 8 rib set-up and it slips when I go to the 13lbs pulley. If you are going to run higher boost, the 8 rib will not be able to support it.

[351wStang]

Well I want to look into FI fully before I decide either to spend more money on this car or just go n/a atleast for a while. Right now I'm thinking that if I do go n/a I will be getting a super or turbo charger by winter time. If I can get a decent blower and everything cheap enough I will buy it all now. I was thinking about 10lbs would be plenty for me. I'd like to be able to get a reliable FI setup for at or under $2k. But it doesnt look like thats going to happen. If anyone know of any used stuff I am interested.