95 Orvis with 2-3 upshift problem

[pkellymc]

Greetings and what an incredible site I stumbled upon! So far, I've scanned the first 20 of 78 pages and it appears I'm not alone. My Orvis (5.2L, 46(?) tranny) w/112K has [redeveloped] a 2-3 upshift problem, primarily when cold but occasionally after warmup, too. It shifts fine 1-2 but will stay in 2nd up to 50 mph or more without going to 3rd. If I just back off the throttle it often won't go to 3rd but if I go to N and coast a bit while the rpm drops to idle, then shift back to D, I can usually feel 2nd, then a shift to 3. Seems like when I get it to go to 3rd the first time, it will shift normally from then on. Never any problem with 3-OD or lockup. At 45K miles I had the identical problem and a fluid/filter change cured it. I think the service tech also mentioned cleaning spools(?) in the valve body. Not likely anything major was wrong at 45K and it would have been a tough sell talking me into an overhaul back then. But now there's 112K on the clock...
I took it in last week to a different shop and left a detailed problem description, along with the previous fix, written up on a sheet of paper I left in the driver's seat. When the service manager called later that afternoon, he said it had "core problems" and needed an overhaul. Suspecting I was getting a "generic" diagnosis, I asked him to elaborate. He went on to say the clutches were bad. I asked how the clutch could be bad for 2-3 operation when it's the same clutch that is engaged for all forward ranges (according to my 1995 Shop Manual). It seemed like he suddenly realized that I may know a little more than he'd thought so the smoke-blowing session abruptly ended with him saying he'd get back to me with overhaul and reman pricing. When he called back, he was armed with more ammo. He said that they'd run a pressure test and that internal pressure was up near 200 psi and should have been near 100. Also said that clutch seals were leaking (seems like if seals were leaking, pressures should be lower than expected?). When I asked which test port yielded the high pressure; accumulator, governor, front servo or rear servo, he said he didn't know and the tech was gone for the day...but he had the pricing; $2100-overhaul, $3000-reman. They hadn't even road tested it so I told them I wasn't prepared to drop that much on what was currently a mere annoyance and that I'd like to take it for a second opinion. Total outlay, $90 but my shorts were still intact.
So here I am. I'm tempted to pull the pan, field-strip & clean the valve body and replace the fluid & filter...might cost me another $90 but if it fixes the problem it'll have saved me a lot more, and if not at least my mind will be at ease that it wasn't just a gunked up spool again. I've read the procedure for the total fluid flush and I have a few questions. When I pull the pan, is there a way to drain more than the 4-5 quarts in the pan? Can the converter be drained? Would a chemical flush be advisable prior to the "cooling line" flush procedure? About how fast should the new fluid be added as the old is being pumped out of the opened cooling line? as fast as it'll flow in from a tall conical AT funnel? and with the engine just idling? Also, have any of you ever pulled a valve body for the purpose of stripping and cleaning it? What would be a recommended cleaner/solvent to use?
I know I've asked a lot of questions but I just want to be as thorough as I can before I opt for sending some service manager's kid to Harvard. My thanks in advance for any and all help/experience offered.

[dksob81]

Well I can answer a couple of those answers. A good chemical flush using SeaFoam Trans Tune (just pour it into the tranny with present frluid and drive at least 5 miles, then flush the fluid) will help clean out any gunk if there is any. A good way to flush (I got this from some guy on here):
-Raise the jeep and place it on jackstands (wheels off the ground).
-remove the rear line on the transmission. Stick the line in a bucket (this will be the return line).
-hook a hose up to the transmission (where the return line was disconnected at). Stick this line into a bucket filled with NEW tranny fluid.
start and run the jeep, I am not sure if he placed it in NEUTRAL, PARK, DRIVE,Etc. or if he just went through each gears. I iwll try to find more details for you. Also the Dealership uses 13 qts. for a tranny flush, so you might want to get 13 qts. to flush the tranny with.

[dksob81]

"About how fast should the new fluid be added as the old is being pumped out of the opened cooling line?"

46RH Transmission:
With tranny in neutral it should flow 1 qt. in 20 seconds.