Banging my head

[supernaut420]

Hi guys,

This is my first post, I hope you all can help. I've tried a couple of other forums and just haven't had much luck. I recently bought an '85 Trans Am from the original owner with 115,000 miles on it. It has the LG4 motor 700R4 trans. Driving it home to Montana from Portland the car really ran like crap. Missing on more than one cylinder and way out of time. Unfortunately I had no choice but to drive it the 600 miles home. Okay, the morning after I got home, I was warming it up. It must have been about 30 degrees outside. after about 1 minute of idling whitish blue smoke began to pour out of the exhaust, in about 2 minutes it cleared up(This occurs every warm up in colder temps) I looked under the car and noticed the catalytic converter glowing red. Yikes! Also the oil smelled excessively of gasoline. That day I replaced the coolant temp sensor, thermostat, thermostat housing, changed the oil, we changed the plugs and reset the timing. 0 degrees at TDC right? After about 200 miles the 1, 3, and 7 plugs were fouled. The threads wet with black chunky/greasy/sooty deposits. It seems that the drivers side bank is the only one fouling plugs. 2, 4, 6, and 8 plugs were not great but not fouled either. I replaced plugs 1, 3, and 7. Within 300 miles I had a significant miss again, I pulled No. 1, guess what? Threads wet with same deposits on electrode and firing tip. Being a poor man as it is let alone all the money I don't have that I'm dumping into my new "girlfriend", I'm hoping to solve this problem easily (I cross my fingers and sqeeze my eyes shut in silent prayer) and without having to take her off of the road. One other mention is the temperature sender/switch, It probably needs replaced due to the guage temp never goes above 165. This affects nothing but the guage right? I will check this post several times a day so anyone with knowledge, please, please help me. Ask any and all questions you want. I want to help you help me!

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by supernaut420

Hi guys,

This is my first post, I hope you all can help. I've tried a couple of other forums and just haven't had much luck. I recently bought an '85 Trans Am from the original owner with 115,000 miles on it. It has the LG4 motor 700R4 trans. Driving it home to Montana from Portland the car really ran like crap. Missing on more than one cylinder and way out of time. Unfortunately I had no choice but to drive it the 600 miles home. Okay, the morning after I got home, I was warming it up. It must have been about 30 degrees outside. after about 1 minute of idling whitish blue smoke began to pour out of the exhaust, in about 2 minutes it cleared up(This occurs every warm up in colder temps) I looked under the car and noticed the catalytic converter glowing red. Yikes! Also the oil smelled excessively of gasoline. That day I replaced the coolant temp sensor, thermostat, thermostat housing, changed the oil, we changed the plugs and reset the timing. 0 degrees at TDC right? After about 200 miles the 1, 3, and 7 plugs were fouled. The threads wet with black chunky/greasy/sooty deposits. It seems that the drivers side bank is the only one fouling plugs. 2, 4, 6, and 8 plugs were not great but not fouled either. I replaced plugs 1, 3, and 7. Within 300 miles I had a significant miss again, I pulled No. 1, guess what? Threads wet with same deposits on electrode and firing tip. Being a poor man as it is let alone all the money I don't have that I'm dumping into my new "girlfriend", I'm hoping to solve this problem easily (I cross my fingers and sqeeze my eyes shut in silent prayer) and without having to take her off of the road. One other mention is the temperature sender/switch, It probably needs replaced due to the guage temp never goes above 165. This affects nothing but the guage right? I will check this post several times a day so anyone with knowledge, please, please help me. Ask any and all questions you want. I want to help you help me!

First of all your timing is off, I do not have the particular data for your engine, but there is no engine that fires on TDC. 0 degrees at TDC is just a starting point to get the engine run if the distributor was pulled.Most engines fire at 8 to 10 degrees before TDC. You should get this info and set the timing accordingly, that might already solve the problem. Obviously your gas does not burn properly, you might have already ruined the catalytic convertor. Unburned gas inside of it will destroy it, it will also explain the red hot glow.Go set your timing right and let us know what happened.

[supernaut420]

Thank you, that is where I'll start, I will post again and share the results.

[supernaut420]

I stopped at Checker auto last night to buy some more spark plugs. I don't have a timing light so I took the air cleaner off with the car running, grabbed hold of the distributor and turned it to the left a little. What a difference that made! After adjusting it for a few minutes I have the tires spinning on pavement from a dead stop! Beautiful! I can't thank you enough for that piece of advice. I didn't even change out the dirty plugs and it was running better than it has since I got it. Now my idle is at about 750 in park, if that's not good please let me know. I'll change out the plugs for new ones today and see what happens. Thank You!

[cooltc2004]

I see most of your problems were fixed from the timing, which makes sence. About your tempurature, has it risen about 165? If not check your thermastat, either you have a 165 therm or shes stuck partly open.

[supernaut420]

I actually put a 180* thermostat in it recently, I believe the problem with the low temperature resides in the temp sender/switch or the guage itself. The thermostat, housing, and coolant temp sensor are new.

[supernaut420]

Anyone have a preferred way of replacing the number 8 spark plug on these 305s? I've done it twice now but, there's got to be a better way. Thanks!

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by supernaut420

I stopped at Checker auto last night to buy some more spark plugs. I don't have a timing light so I took the air cleaner off with the car running, grabbed hold of the distributor and turned it to the left a little. What a difference that made! After adjusting it for a few minutes I have the tires spinning on pavement from a dead stop! Beautiful! I can't thank you enough for that piece of advice. I didn't even change out the dirty plugs and it was running better than it has since I got it. Now my idle is at about 750 in park, if that's not good please let me know. I'll change out the plugs for new ones today and see what happens. Thank You!

sounds good, but have somebody with a light doublecheck. If the timing is off it also has an effect on your coolant temperature.You will also add to the longevity of your engine.

[tacoma man.]

volkerc is right. better get that taken care of before severe damage is done.

[supernaut420]

Originally Posted by tacoma man.

volkerc is right. better get that taken care of before severe damage is done.

I'm sorry but I really feel stupid here. Could you please explain the damage that can be done? I drove it last night and nothing seems amiss, should I be listening for anything in particular? I won't be able to use a timing light without driving it 120 miles. How can I know it's timed close enough to prevent damage without using a light. Thanks so much guys, you've been really good to me.

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by supernaut420

I'm sorry but I really feel stupid here. Could you please explain the damage that can be done? I drove it last night and nothing seems amiss, should I be listening for anything in particular? I won't be able to use a timing light without driving it 120 miles. How can I know it's timed close enough to prevent damage without using a light. Thanks so much guys, you've been really good to me.

you really can't see it, that is the problem, a timing that is off (way off) from manufacturers specs has an influence on the combustion process, as you experienced your gas went unburnt through the exhaust causing your converter to lit up. from what you are describing you are not to far off anymore, the problem remains that under load conditions you might experience, knock, ping irregular combustion and therefore damage to your pistons, and or bearings can occur. for fuel effiency. performance and longevity of the engine it is important to stick with the manufacturers given timing. even though you might be close, your plugs might foul again or else, this is not to scare you, but in your own interest try to have somebody check on it. for the time being i would drive the car very carefully, especially after the trip you already put on the car, avoid "burnouts" and don't race the car even though it might be tempting, your wallet and your car will thank you. take care.

[custom mccannix]

go to your local auto parts store and see if they have a light you can borrow or rent most will. plus the way you are checking your plugs for foul is wrong when ever you use this method you have to get up to speed and rpm's in order to get a proper reading and the shut it off and coast to a stop. watch the guys in nascar when they finish qualifying or practice laps they run it hard into turn four and shut it down and coast into the pit that way the idle mixture will not affect the plugs look because they tend to run a little richer on idle than on power. also your idle is great but for an automatic it is low you should adjust your mix until it start to want to move at idle and then bring it back down until she stops and then just a hair more it will ussually put you around 1000rpm or 950rpm. also when you fouled your plugs there was no need to buy new ones you just needed to clean them off a little and the engine will do the rest for you after about five minutes. as for your blueish white smoke you have alot of miles and your rings are probablly good and worn this would explain the fuel smell in the oil it is from blow-by getting past the rings. start saving for a rebuild. good luck have fun

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by custom mccannix

go to your local auto parts store and see if they have a light you can borrow or rent most will. plus the way you are checking your plugs for foul is wrong when ever you use this method you have to get up to speed and rpm's in order to get a proper reading and the shut it off and coast to a stop. watch the guys in nascar when they finish qualifying or practice laps they run it hard into turn four and shut it down and coast into the pit that way the idle mixture will not affect the plugs look because they tend to run a little richer on idle than on power. also your idle is great but for an automatic it is low you should adjust your mix until it start to want to move at idle and then bring it back down until she stops and then just a hair more it will ussually put you around 1000rpm or 950rpm. also when you fouled your plugs there was no need to buy new ones you just needed to clean them off a little and the engine will do the rest for you after about five minutes. as for your blueish white smoke you have alot of miles and your rings are probablly good and worn this would explain the fuel smell in the oil it is from blow-by getting past the rings. start saving for a rebuild. good luck have fun

Supernaut 420

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD YOU RACE YOUR ENGINE AS DESCRIBED HERE,BEFORE YOU HAD SOMEBODY CHECK ON THE TIMING!!!
Furthermore blueish white smoke only comes from unburnt fuel, which has nothing to do with your rings. If your rings are worn, you burn oil, and that will be black smoke! And your fuel smell in the oil is simply from the unburnt gas running everywhere, even collect in your oil, change the oil, check the timing and your good.

[supernaut420]

I got ahold of a timing light. I'm confused again. I followed the directions in my chiltons manual up to the point where it told me to disconnect the 4 wire EST terminal from the distributor. I don't have a 4 wire terminal. I have a 3 wire terminal and then the tach and bat connections. thats a total of five wires, on three seperate connectors. Anyway with everything plugged in. The car is Idling at about 700 rpm. When I aim the timing light at the mark on the balancer, it's like two inches above the timing plate. I wish I could draw a picture because that doesn't really make any sense when I read it back to myself but maybe you can figure out what I mean or ask me the right question to help you understand. When I turn the distributor to the left the rpms increase and the timing mark goes farther above the plate. If the mark is anywhere near the plate then the motor bogs down and hesitates when you give it throttle. What does it sound like guys? I need more infinite wisdom
Thanks for all of your help so far!

[volkerc]

Originally Posted by supernaut420

I got ahold of a timing light. I'm confused again. I followed the directions in my chiltons manual up to the point where it told me to disconnect the 4 wire EST terminal from the distributor. I don't have a 4 wire terminal. I have a 3 wire terminal and then the tach and bat connections. thats a total of five wires, on three seperate connectors. Anyway with everything plugged in. The car is Idling at about 700 rpm. When I aim the timing light at the mark on the balancer, it's like two inches above the timing plate. I wish I could draw a picture because that doesn't really make any sense when I read it back to myself but maybe you can figure out what I mean or ask me the right question to help you understand. When I turn the distributor to the left the rpms increase and the timing mark goes farther above the plate. If the mark is anywhere near the plate then the motor bogs down and hesitates when you give it throttle. What does it sound like guys? I need more infinite wisdom
Thanks for all of your help so far!

tough one without seeing it. if i understand you right, you are saying that you are aiming at the balancer, you should aim at the plate where it gives you all those numbers, 6 8 10 .... now you should bring the mark on the balancer to align it with the correct number on the plate, so i don't know your specs, but lets say if your supposed to set the timing to 8 degrees before tdc (or what ever your number is) turn the distributor until the number and the mark line up, i assume you are just pointing from a different angle, if you are not, i would have to ask you what kind of light you are using, there are advance lights that have a turn knob at the back of the light, make sure that knob is on "0" if it is not, it will have the effect that you just mentioned, you won't be able to bring the mark down to the plate, set the knob on 0 to adjust timing at idle.and yes turning the distributor will adjust it.hm, and another thing, my light has the clamp that that needs to be hooked to the nr 1 spark plug wire, a ground and the other wire goes to a positive lead, so i don't know what wire you are disconnecting... would be no need to with the light i'm using...