68 Firebird Question

[DartFart]

I really like the look of these cars. I was wondering how these cars would compare to a 67-69 Dart or a 65-67 LeMans as far as handleing and power! Would this be a good driver quality car and would this car be worth considering over the others........can someone give me the pros and cons before I make a decision!

Also...how easy would it be to upgrade the front end and suspension on the firebird in order to get a better ride and handeling feel out of the car?
THANKS for any and all advice!

[MrPbody]

The Darts/Valiants are pretty good handlers when stock. Once a large amount of power is applied, they can get a bit squirrley... The front suspension is torsion bar, making it easy to adjust ride height, and they seldom wear out. The lower control arms are a pain in the butt to rebuild. The bushing in there must be "dug" out, as it's in a blind hole.
The GM A-Body is far superior to both for street manners and handling. While the earlier LeMans didn't have all the suspension "goodies", all the stuff from the later cars fits without modification. It's pretty tough to beat a '70 GTO with the handling package, or a 442... ]
The F-Body has a plethora of parts available to make it a killer. All the Camaro and Firebird parts for suspension are interchangeable, within eras. The Firebird is lighter than the LeMans, too. All the good Pontiac engines fit. Headers are also available in many flavors.
For all three cars, all the good suspension parts are out there. I suppose you need to decide which one will be the best all-around car. I always liked the GM A-Body, but that's no secret. I currently own a '68 and a '69 Firebird. I haven't owned a Valiant since 1985. It was a '68 4-door with a 225/auto. Not a very nice car, but a very good one.
Resale value may be another consideration. As of now, the Firebird is higher than the LeMans, which is higher than a Dart or Valiant ("special" models excluded). If you were lucky enough to find a '68 "400" car (model, not just engine) with a manual transmission, you have hit the jackpot!
FWIW

[DartFart]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

The Darts/Valiants are pretty good handlers when stock. Once a large amount of power is applied, they can get a bit squirrley... The front suspension is torsion bar, making it easy to adjust ride height, and they seldom wear out. The lower control arms are a pain in the butt to rebuild. The bushing in there must be "dug" out, as it's in a blind hole.
The GM A-Body is far superior to both for street manners and handling. While the earlier LeMans didn't have all the suspension "goodies", all the stuff from the later cars fits without modification. It's pretty tough to beat a '70 GTO with the handling package, or a 442... ]
The F-Body has a plethora of parts available to make it a killer. All the Camaro and Firebird parts for suspension are interchangeable, within eras. The Firebird is lighter than the LeMans, too. All the good Pontiac engines fit. Headers are also available in many flavors.
For all three cars, all the good suspension parts are out there. I suppose you need to decide which one will be the best all-around car. I always liked the GM A-Body, but that's no secret. I currently own a '68 and a '69 Firebird. I haven't owned a Valiant since 1985. It was a '68 4-door with a 225/auto. Not a very nice car, but a very good one.
Resale value may be another consideration. As of now, the Firebird is higher than the LeMans, which is higher than a Dart or Valiant ("special" models excluded). If you were lucky enough to find a '68 "400" car (model, not just engine) with a manual transmission, you have hit the jackpot!
FWIW

Thanks for the info. Mr.Pbody- So what you are saying is that I could go with a 65-67 LeMans (A-Body) car and get good ride, handeling and drive capablilities as opposed to the First Generation Firebirds? I'm looking for an all around great car....power, drive, handeling etc etc.....In your opinion would the LeMans be a better overall choice than the Firebird? I'm sure you would say the LeMans would offer more "Roadtrip" comfort than a early model Firebird???

[MrPbody]

Dartfart,
Yes, with all the "goodies" installed, the A-Body is the better choice. This is functionally the same chassis the GTO was based on, with only minor mechanical differences. Changing the springs, shocks, and upgrading the steering box to a more modern unit, makes the A-Body a force to reckon with in the twisties. Be sure to put in a modern brake system as well.
The A-Body also has a real frame in it, unlike the F-Body and the Dodge. This makes for a much more solid feel and ride, as well as the performance gains from rigidity. To get the unibody cars up to snuff, you'll need frame "connectors" and probably a 6-point roll cage. This is espcially true if you intend to put more than 400 or so horsepower to it. We had a customer that had a '66 LeGoat (LeMans body, changed to LOOK like GTO) that ran high 10s for two years with a relatively stock chassis (8-point cage by rule, due to ETs). It had a stiffer right rear spring and an air bag inside it (the right rear). 60' times were in the 1.30-1.40 range. 10" slick. BADASS car! Unfortunately, he lost the brakes on the top end at Richmond Dragway and put it into the trees. ALWAYS convert to a dual master cylinder!

Jim

[DartFart]

Thanks for the info Jim- How about the 68-70 Model LeMans/GTO cars.....how would you compare them to the 65-67 Model cars.....drive, handleing, performance etc etc!
THANKS!

[MrPbody]

Better, yet! Shorter wheelbase (112 vs. 115), a bit wider frame rails, much "nicer" cars. IMO, the '70 GTO is one of the most "muscular" looking cars anyone ever made. '69s are considered one of the "best". Same is true of most GM offerings that year. Something to do with the planets lining up or something...
We're trying to start work on a '70 LeMans with a GTO front clip (glass). We'll see how the project goes...

[DartFart]

Mr. Pbody- Thanks for all the help and the information. It sure helps a guy who is trying to make a good decision about his first muscle car....one that I plan to keep for a long long time!

[MrPbody]

No sweat, dood...

[tuske427]

Originally Posted by DartFart

I really like the look of these cars. I was wondering how these cars would compare to a 67-69 Dart or a 65-67 LeMans as far as handleing and power! Would this be a good driver quality car and would this car be worth considering over the others........can someone give me the pros and cons before I make a decision!

Also...how easy would it be to upgrade the front end and suspension on the firebird in order to get a better ride and handeling feel out of the car?
THANKS for any and all advice!

A couple things to consider are 1- what are your uses for this car? daily driver? weekend warrior? eventually want to race it? restore it, haul a family in it, etc?? any of the cars you listed can be made to handle and will accept modern drivetrains, but if you're limited in $$ (which we most are) I'd suggest you go with the firebird. Mopars in general are much more expensive than GM or Ford. Your money will go farther with the GM car. GM has the most interchangable parts among the big 3, (or big 4 of the day) so availability and cost will be your friend here. Check out Global west, Energy supension, PST, etc.. Also, please like year one, AMes, national parts depot ,etc.. many brands of parts are available to make your car handle and look as well as you can afford. Or take the budget route and scour the junkyards for later parts like Pbody was stating. But since the Camaro is probably the epitome of the "muscle car" (debatable, but it's up there) so many companies make parts for these you can buy virtually any part for it- including a complete body, and a lot of these parts are direct fit onto the Firebirds. This makes "restoring" it much easier. I'm working on an old Mopar right now and it's no fun trying to find parts for it. conversely I once bought 2- '68 Firebirds on the same day. I combined the 2 to make one nice car, sold the extras, enjoyed the car for a while and ultimately sold it for a profit when I was done. Depending on where you live, where'll you be driving, etc. the Firebird is smaller and lighter. This is benefitial in many ways. Easier to park, etc.. With the fuel prices going up, a smaller, lighter car will be easier on your wallet, if this is a concern for you. Less mass means less strain on parts, less power needed to go as fast, etc.. Firebirds are still plenty available, too. They made many more '68's than they did '67's. There are so many companies that specialize in parts for all of these cars- it really comes down to your personal tastes and needs from the car. I think this will help you decide. Good luck with whichever car you decide, there is no wrong answer!

[DartFart]

Originally Posted by tuske427

A couple things to consider are 1- what are your uses for this car? daily driver? weekend warrior? eventually want to race it? restore it, haul a family in it, etc?? any of the cars you listed can be made to handle and will accept modern drivetrains, but if you're limited in $$ (which we most are) I'd suggest you go with the firebird. Mopars in general are much more expensive than GM or Ford. Your money will go farther with the GM car. GM has the most interchangable parts among the big 3, (or big 4 of the day) so availability and cost will be your friend here. Check out Global west, Energy supension, PST, etc.. Also, please like year one, AMes, national parts depot ,etc.. many brands of parts are available to make your car handle and look as well as you can afford. Or take the budget route and scour the junkyards for later parts like Pbody was stating. But since the Camaro is probably the epitome of the "muscle car" (debatable, but it's up there) so many companies make parts for these you can buy virtually any part for it- including a complete body, and a lot of these parts are direct fit onto the Firebirds. This makes "restoring" it much easier. I'm working on an old Mopar right now and it's no fun trying to find parts for it. conversely I once bought 2- '68 Firebirds on the same day. I combined the 2 to make one nice car, sold the extras, enjoyed the car for a while and ultimately sold it for a profit when I was done. Depending on where you live, where'll you be driving, etc. the Firebird is smaller and lighter. This is benefitial in many ways. Easier to park, etc.. With the fuel prices going up, a smaller, lighter car will be easier on your wallet, if this is a concern for you. Less mass means less strain on parts, less power needed to go as fast, etc.. Firebirds are still plenty available, too. They made many more '68's than they did '67's. There are so many companies that specialize in parts for all of these cars- it really comes down to your personal tastes and needs from the car. I think this will help you decide. Good luck with whichever car you decide, there is no wrong answer!

Tuske- I do appreciate the info and the time you took to help out! I have pretty much narrowed things down to the LeMans/GTO Clone and the Firebirds.....I will use the car as a daily driver and will want to take the family for a good ride from time to time as well!

Thanks,
DartFart