bad baterey?

[countryboy]

My mom has a 2000 sprtage and has been having problems with it starting. About a week ago she said it would just keep turning over and not starting but then it did and worked fine for 4 or five days and did it again started good for another few days then wouldn’t start again this time it never would start. So I went to look at it and it would crank over fine but not wanting to fire up. The battery was about dead by this time so I jumped it and tried to start it and it started right up. took the cable off and shut it off and turned it on about two or three times then it wouldn’t start again so I put the cables back on and it started back up .took the bat. To get checked and it was bad. Put a new one in and started several times in a row .could it have been the bat or just a coincidence? The starter sounded like it was turning fast enough to start it before the new bat. But just wouldn’t any ideas?

[LMP]

Similar reports (have not had that problem myself) are most often traced down to the crank position sensor.


THis seems to be a common problem having that erratic character and it would at least demand to be part of the investigation whenever it occurs again ...(...I lean on the side of coincidence 'bout the battery..if it was the oriinal, it was due rather sooner than later anyway..that is my case). Try to get the codes out of this diagnostic plug....that will need a scanner. I'm told AUtozone (unknown in my part of Canada) does it for free.

ANother likely possibility is the Idle Air COntrol valve, located on the air intake exhaust side of the engine.

It gets sticky and causes that kind of problem; once removed (2 screws), spraying carb cleaner into IAC ports will restore free operation. SInce doing this costs about nothing, this is at least wise maintenance.

[countryboy]

thanks for the reply, it stopped starting again so I am checking it out again this time I think it might be the fuel pump but going to do more checking I cant hear it when I turn the key on and I took the line off the fuel filter and didn’t get any fuel out when I turned the key on .checked the plugs for fire and had spark so I don’t think it is the cam position sender does this sound correct to you?

[LMP]

Based on these, I'd also like to know why I do not have that fuel coming.....I'd disconnect the pump and look for 12v when turning the key on: OK the fuel pump seems not to operate, but is it due to the pump or the voltage feed?

[countryboy]

i am checking that to night is there a fuse going to just the fuel pump or is the relay the only thing in line ?

[countryboy]

would you happen to have a wireing diagram for this ? i checked the voltage and i have 12 volts going to the relay but not at the fuse is tere any thing else that would be stopping the voltage? i swaped the relays out but didnt do any good

[LMP]

CHeck here:
www.geocities.com/lmp4203/kiasport/PowerDist.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/lmp4203/kia...umpCircuit.jpg

[countryboy]

Thanks this will be a big help tonight. this is my moms car and I do not have a book for it and the only one we can find is from the dealer. If I am reading this diagram right the hot wire goes straight from the fuel pump relay to the fuse in the driver’s area to the pump is this correct? If so what turns it off when it build pressure at the injectors. Again thanks for all the help you have given me.

[LMP]

As you see the relay coil itself is controlled by the ECM so the ECM CAN trig the pump on and off if a pressure info is fed to the ECM. However at this point, I'm not sure the pump is actually trigged on and off to maintain pressure..except at start-up to avoid flooding. I will try to check that but I thing the pump runs all the time and pressure is mechanically controlled and a return line deviates the excess fuel back to the tank thus maintaining constant line pressure.

[countryboy]

thanks

[countryboy]

Ok. I checked ever thing out and what I found is the fuel pump is good to find that out I ran a jumper to the green/yellow wire from the bat. And it came right on. What else I found was that the relay was not switching on the diagram I got from you I have 12 volts at the #5,1,2 terminals on the relay but 3 and 4 would not get hot. I know that the relay is good because I ran jumpers from #5 and 2 to the bat. And #1 to ground that pulled in the relay and then #3 and 4 was hot .so now I have to figure out why it will not make the #3 and 4 terminal hot on its own. Sorry if this is confusing but I am hoping some one will be able to help with the problem

[LMP]

Read you loud and clear. Pin 1 of the relay is normally pulled to ground by the ECM, and that is also pin 1 on the ECM. OF course, either there is a condition sensed by the ECM that tells it not to fire the pump (?!?), or the ECM is faulty (largely improbable) or more simply, there is faulty connector C151 in between , or loss of continuity from ECM to relay. I have seen - to my total disbelief - a 10 or 12 gauge wire with a completely corroded spot at one place along its length with total loss of conduction while the insulation looked 100% intact! So if you can spot pin 1 on the ECM plug, just ground it to see if the relay clicks in!

[cbeck]

First off, i think i read in my manual that Kia did away with the return line regulation... So I think LMP might be on to something. If he has trouble locating the info, i can check for you.

I'm used to either 4 or six terminal relays...(prefer AC residential elictricity. i assume this is a normally open relay?) but if #1 is in fact your grounded activator and three and four is what the relay breaks... when you pull your relay out, with the car in "on" you should get a ground at 1 against the (+) batery and one hot and one ground at 3 & 4. Is that what you get? also, does jumping out trminals 3 and 4 W/O the relay in make the pump come on?

(i think 2 should also give hot against the ground and i have no idea what a fith terminal does??? what i'm used to is a hot and ground that "make" the relay and a hot that gets made with the ground waiting from the motor. the fact that so much is hot makes me think you got a short or a relay in series with that one that is out or fried. without the diagram i can't be of much more help, sorry)


edit: oops, me trying to make my gramar and help make sense, you beat me to it LMP!

[countryboy]

ok it is the pain again just got in from cheching it out againn and i will say i have a test light that will check ground as well as hot and here is what i got ,

key off relay out- 2 hot, 3 and 5 ground 4 and 1 nutrel

key on relay out -same as above

relay in key on 2,1,and 5 hot, 4 and 3 ground

when i jump 3and 4 i get nothing if i jump 2 and 3 the pump runs

[countryboy]

it looks to me that ther in no reason for it to not work unless some thing is wrong with 3 but know idea what it wold be is this a ground to the relay box itself?