Headlights on the new style DeVille DTS

[OldRelayer]

We are in a Quandary. We have had 5 Lincoln Marks, the last one is a 1998, the last year they made them. This has been a great choice for us, with comfort, ride and performance that always fit our needs. We would normally use 4 studded snows for the winter, which made the car only mildly lethal in the snow as opposed to deadly. But for the last 3 winters we have had a winter car, a 97 Olds 88, which has been a great winter car. I am not a big fan of front wheel drive but I am considering something like the Deville as being capable in both summer and winter but also have my eye on a Lincoln LS, a Beemer 740iL and a Mercedes 500cl, which for all the right reasons I probably wont' buy, of course these again would be strickly summer cars. In all cases the vehicles are used and there are some good buys to be had if your willing to travel a bit. I would love the 500cl, mainly because it is what use to be called a Personal Luxury Car, 2 door and more like the Mark than the others, or should I say the Mark is more like the Mercedes.

First off I haven't seen many posting on the new DeVille, that could be a good thing, maybe people are not having problems with them.

I do have a very big concern about the headlights. When we went from our 95 Mark to the 98, one of the big reasons was for the lights, they are Xenon and they are amazing. The Deville has the Night vision option that is a heat sensing device, and if I understand it right, will allow you too "see" an animal (a moose) or a person in the road, at a considerable distance. This is a good thing but what about just normal driving? I am interested to hear from someone that has driven this car and also a car with Xenon lights and compare the results. The car that I am considering is about 400 miles or so, a bit hard to take it for a drive at night.

Or any other plus or minus about this vehicle.

If there is another board that is more appropriate to this kind of post let me know.

Thanks
Barry

[caddydaddy]

Xenon lights are great, but the nighvision system on the Cadillac DTS can see well beyond the range of any cars headlights. I don't think the system is used during the day, since you can see much further during the day, what would be the point of using it?
The Cadillac DTS you can get with HID lights and nightvision. The best of both worlds???
The DTS would be a great all season car with standard traction control, and stability control. And you almost can't beat FWD in the snow!
There were some problems with the Devilles, but mostly just the first few years, 2000, 2001.

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

The Cadillac DTS you can get with HID lights and nightvision. The best of both worlds???

hmmm... I haven't seen a car listed with the Xenon system, not sure if they just don't list it or not have it. Actually I have only seen, I think one with Night vision. It is odd to me that a car in this price range, they make you pay extra for real lights.

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

The DTS would be a great all season car with standard traction control, and stability control. And you almost can't beat FWD in the snow!

This is the only Front drive car we are considering, if it wasn't good in the snow, what would be the sense. All though the new rear drive designs are closer to 50/50 weight distribution and are better in the snow. We are also seriously considering the Lincoln LS and it is probably going to be either of these two cars, and each have strong points. What would make the LS a winter car would be two sets of wheels, smaller with studs for the winter, but it has a good reputation when you take these measures. The DeVille is bigger and certainly more comfortable but in the back of my head I still have the "Real cars are Rear Drive" and apparently Cadillac agrees because after many years of front drive cars they are going back to Rear Drive.

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

There were some problems with the Devilles, but mostly just the first few years, 2000, 2001.

What were the problems that you are aware of in the 2000/2001. Actually I was thinking of a 2000 because it is the new design and you can pick nice one up with fairly low mileage for a reasonable price. Which is actually the selling point over the LS because you need to get into the 2003 or even the 2004 to get over the infant issues with the design. I hadn't heard that much about the early Devilles being troublesome, I will have to do some more research in that regard. Do you have any specifics?

[caddydaddy]

[quote]hmmm... I haven't seen a car listed with the Xenon system, not sure if they just don't list it or not have it. Actually I have only seen, I think one with Night vision. It is odd to me that a car in this price range, they make you pay extra for real lights.[quote]


I know on the base Devilles they aren't standard. HID may be optional on the DTS and DHS as well.


[quote]This is the only Front drive car we are considering, if it wasn't good in the snow, what would be the sense.
The DeVille is bigger and certainly more comfortable but in the back of my head I still have the "Real cars are Rear Drive" and apparently Cadillac agrees because after many years of front drive cars they are going back to Rear Drive.[quote]



"Real" performance cars are RWD, even though my STS is faster than a lot of cars, but that's another topic! The DTS is a fast, great handling car, so unless you are road racing it, FWD is fine. I would take FWD over RWD anytime in the snow.

What were the problems that you are aware of in the 2000/2001. Actually I was thinking of a 2000 because it is the new design and you can pick nice one up with fairly low mileage for a reasonable price.
I hadn't heard that much about the early Devilles being troublesome, I will have to do some more research in that regard. Do you have any specifics?

There were some problems with the engines. In 2000 there were block porousity problems and cranks sensor problems. I wouldn't shun a 2000 or 2001 just because of this, just something to be aware of. By now, I'm sure the bad batch of crank sensors have been changed on all the cars, and the ones that have had the porous blocks have been found and engines changed as well.
My STS is a 2000, and it had both of these problems. The engine was replaced with 44,000 miles on the car. Good thing for factory warranty!

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

There were some problems with the engines. In 2000 there were block porousity problems and cranks sensor problems. I wouldn't shun a 2000 or 2001 just because of this, just something to be aware of. By now, I'm sure the bad batch of crank sensors have been changed on all the cars, and the ones that have had the porous blocks have been found and engines changed as well.

Thanks for the great information.

We are seriously considering a 2000 that apparently has about a month left on the warrantee.

The sensors don't scare me but the Engine Block is a big deal. Is this easily diagnosed?
Ford products have a way to track what has been done on a vehicle under warrantee and dealer accomplished, is is called Oasis. Is there a GM counterpart that can be used to check out the service history?


One of the things that has me a little worried about this particular vehicle is the person has only owned it since December and says he thought he had a need for the car but he doesn't. It may be that I am a bit paranoid or does that seem odd to you?

That is a private party. I am not sure I wouldn't be better off paying around $20k for a fully loaded DTS with 40 to 50kmiles and that way get some dealer warrantee and maybe have the ability to trade the Mark, I am not crazy about selling it by my sell, most people are clueless the value of this vehicle. Not sure, but where the DTS is a good winter car, I may just keep the Mark, it isn't worth much to anyone else and sell the winter car which is worth more than I paid for it. Only one of the many options that come to mind when I think about this subject. I guess what it is going to take and to fall in love with a car.

Thanks again for the help.
Barry

[caddydaddy]

For the porous block, I'd have it checked out. With my car, there was a coolant smell and slight loss. A year 2000 car is now 5 years old, so if it hasn't leaked yet, it probably won't. Not all of the 2000 Northstars had the problem, but it's just something to be aware of and look for.
Yea, the owner for 3 months makes me a little curious. I'd check out the history of that car more, or look for another! There's plenty of great Cadillacs out there!
$20k, would buy you a nice 2002 DTS or possibly a 2003 with those miles.

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

There's plenty of great Cadillacs out there!
$20k, would buy you a nice 2002 DTS or possibly a 2003 with those miles.

Well, I haven't found any that were that cheap. Even this 2000 he wants 19k$ for and that is right at book for a private sale according to Kelley. I would want to own this one for about 17K, probably wouldn't happen but who knows.

We dont' necessarily need something as big as the DeVille. I am sure that the STS would offer just as much comfort for two people. I can't get a feel for it, they seem to run a little higher than the DTS??

I am having less luck locally with finding something than either on Autotrader or Ebay all a good distance away. Of course from Central Maine civilization is a good distance away.

How does this one sound. A 2001 STS 48kmiles, loaded with everything including HID lights but no Navigation(not a big deal for me), but it does have reversing, moonroof and everything other thing that is important to us, with the exception of the Keypad entry(a Ford thing) which we will really miss, it has been a lot of years since we had to carry around keys. The car has some kind of super 100k warrantee that has about 1 1/2 years left. This vehicle is on Ebay and I would have to travel to Palm beach to pick it up, which doesn't thrill me, but just wonder what you thought would be a good deal on this.

A more general question. The Deville is obviously bigger but in all other respects, which is a better car a 2000/2001 STS or a 2000/2001 DTS.

Thanks again for your help and your useful insight.
Barry

[caddydaddy]

I wouldn't use Kelley Blue book. I've seen reports that they are under investigation for inflating the prices as to profit the car dealers! Use Edmunds, they are more accurate.
The DTS' are usually a higher resale value car, the STS value drops quicker. As for differences between the two, they are on the same chassis with the same engine, but the DTS is a little bigger and rides a little smoother. Take one of each and see which one you like better. I love my STS, but the rear seat room is kinda tight and it doesn't have as big of a trunk as the Deville. But it is a fast, awesome handling car!
The 2001 STS sounds good, the miles are fairly low, and it's very loaded! That would be a nice car! Do you have the link to it, I'd like to check it out. Are you in Maine? You might want to look into having the car shipped up. I bought my STS from Florida, and I had it shipped to CT for around $600. Considering I saved about $6,000 from what the local Cadillac dealer wanted for the same car, that's worth it!

[OldRelayer]

We are going out locally to drive a DTS today, no STS's to be found in this area at the moment. The local DTS isn't as nice as the one I was looking at on the NET and they want about 5K more, which is a good thing I won't be tempted to buy it.

I suspect we would be happy with either a DTS or a STS but I kinda think an STS is more what we are accustomed to.

Here is the link for the STS.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4532319848

I should be able to let you know what our driving impressions were on the DTS in a few hours.

Thanks
Barry

[caddydaddy]

WOW! That is a very clean, and nice STS! Silver is a nice color too, mine is black. If you are used to driving Lincoln Marks like you mentioned, either the DTS or STS would fill your need for performance very well! I wonder what the reserve is set for for that car.
If it does have a GM warranty for another year and a half like the ad mentions, that's a good deal to cover you incase anything goes wrong.
If the price is right, I'd take that STS!

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

If it does have a GM warranty for another year and a half like the ad mentions, that's a good deal to cover you incase anything goes wrong.
If the price is right, I'd take that STS!

Well we did get out and look at a couple of DTS's today. The one we would have been the most likely to buy was a pearl White(my wife is determined to have a pearl white car) with all the right stuff including a moon roof(which is a must), but supposedly they had a deposit on the car, but it was still in line, not sure what that was about. The second one was a 2001 Black, not a car we would buy, not enough stuff but the thought was, good enough to try. It has a really nice interior and was very comfortable. My wife drove about 25 feet with the car bucking and generally running very badly. The salesman quickly suggested we drive the last DTS, a 2002 and we did. This one wasn't terrible smooth either but better than the first one. We took it for about a 5 mile ride. It was very comfortable, not as air tight as I would expect and very jerky, each time she let of the accerator the car had a bit of a clunk like a bad universal unit in a rear drive car. Handling was good but acceration was poor, the transmission never seemed to get the engine working in the right part of the torque curve to make any real power, it ramped up more like the Queen Mark than a performance sedan. I must say I was a little shocked, I know it is a heavy car but I suspect there was something not so right with this car. When I mentioned it to the salesman, I expected a few different responses, but, "That is just the way the Northstar system works" wasn't one of the responses I would have expected. My wife still really liked the car but I was less impressed. BTW this is the address for the DTS that I was considering
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ayphotohosting

I guess I might want to try another DTS and a STS. But I might be back thinking Lincoln LS after today. I don't know when that will happen. It is hard around here, we traveled to Bangor the other day and found the Cadillac dealer there had 5 new ones (1 Escalade, 3 Devilles and a CTS) and one used CTS. In the other direction is the dealer we went to today, that had more Caddies than the Caddy dealer and nobody seems to care that they run like crap.

[caddydaddy]

My guess is that dealer let the cars sit, and not be driven! That's strange to have several Cadillacs on a lot that don't work right.
If you don't catch a downshift when flooring a Northstar powered car, they can be just quick and not lightning fast as if it had downshifted. That could be what happened with the DTS you drove. Or there could have been something wrong.
That DTS in the link looks nice! Low miles and the price is pretty good! The ad mentions it's still under warranty, ask if it's a extended warranty. No 2000 model year Cadillac is still under warranty unless it sat on the lot when new.

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by caddydaddy

My guess is that dealer let the cars sit, and not be driven! That's strange to have several Cadillacs on a lot that don't work right.
If you don't catch a downshift when flooring a Northstar powered car, they can be just quick and not lightning fast as if it had downshifted. That could be what happened with the DTS you drove. Or there could have been something wrong.
That DTS in the link looks nice! Low miles and the price is pretty good! The ad mentions it's still under warranty, ask if it's a extended warranty. No 2000 model year Cadillac is still under warranty unless it sat on the lot when new.

I am not sure what was wrong either but it is quite frustrating. A dealer told me that that clunking when letting off the accelerator was endemic in the larger/heavier GM products. Me, I know nothing except every time I try to buy a GM product, I don’t.

This is what always happens and then we go back and buy another Mark, what makes it so frustrating is they don't make it any more. I would buy this Mercedes in a heart beat, if it wasn't just about twice as much as I want to spend. If they still made the Mark, I could pick one up for less than a Deville, I always found them to be a tremendous bargain.
I do like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...531519891&rd=1

I haven't totally made up my mind yet, but it is looking more and more like we will just put some money into the Mark and keep it. I do hate the idea of having a car over 100kmiles(which will happen this summer) but at the moment everything else seems like a waste of money. For the cost of the Sales tax and excise tax, could make the 100k car look like it just came from the factory but it still will have 100kmiles. All our Marks near 100k always rode and drove like new, when we got the 1998, except for the 10 less horsepower, it was virtually the same car but for the headlights. The Sales manager at the dealership bought it for his wife.

I am going to hop on the Mark forum and see what people are seeing for mileage on the Power train. The body is still tight. A couple of minor cosmetic issues and my wife drove to close to something at the Dunkin Donuts drive through and scraped the mirror, I suspect all the cosmetic work wouldn't come to more than $600 or so.

Thanks again for your help.

A little frustrated
Barry

[HandofDoom]

Thats why I never buy used.You never know what your getting.But all my Caddys run great.But like I said.I have also bought them new and taken care of them.I start 05 STS up Im not even sure if its running because of how quiet and smooth the engine is.But I guess thats what you get when you get a car with one of the most techicologically advaced engines on the market.Have you look at an Eldorado.A two door,most of the goodies you get with a STS and DTS.Same great ride,same 300 horse Northstar.Awsome ride.I owned a 2002 before I traded it in for the STS.Also a very quick,fast,excellent handling car.

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by HandofDoom

Thats why I never buy used.You never know what your getting.But all my Caddys run great.But like I said.I have also bought them new and taken care of them.I start 05 STS up Im not even sure if its running because of how quiet and smooth the engine is.But I guess thats what you get when you get a car with one of the most techicologically advaced engines on the market.Have you look at an Eldorado.A two door,most of the goodies you get with a STS and DTS.Same great ride,same 300 horse Northstar.Awsome ride.I owned a 2002 before I traded it in for the STS.Also a very quick,fast,excellent handling car.

Thank your for your reply.
It is true that you have to be a lot more careful when buying something used. We have had 5 Marks, 3 were low mileage but used. There is a tremdous saving to be had and the only real difference is you get to a 100k quicker. It was once a way of saving money but now it is pretty much a neccesity, our income is much less than it once was, in order to stay in our price range new, we would be right out of the Luxury class. If we had to buy something like that, we would definitely just keep our car and put a few dollars into it. Even now there is a 50% chance that is just what we will do. We have a little time, right now the car is up for the winter. But once Spring rolls around, will really need to make a decision, it needs brakes and tires. Although even if we sell it, would need to do those things. The car is worth so much more to us than we could ever get for it.

I guess if I had to buy something tomorrow it would be a 2004 Lincoln LS. We can buy one with all the right stuff (roof, xenon lights,side air curtains......) with 2200 miles for 26k$ and used 2003's and 2004's with more like 20kmiles for +- 20k$. And there are even a couple of new 2004's left but I really don't want to spend that much. It makes me giggle, we bought our first house for $19k and it was a two family.
The biggest reason to get a new vehicle is safety, our old Mark is pretty much a death trap, but the LS has a much better rating than the Deville, not sure about the Seville. We really gave the Cadillacs a close look, but I don't see us owning one.