The worlds fastets car: Koenigsegg CC-R beats the McLaren F1 at Nardo 2005!

[Gustav]

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51482

The Koenigsegg CCR raised McLaren's previously unofficial mark of 372 km/h set at Nardo/Prototipo in 1993 with over 15 km/h. On top of this the CCR broke the official McLaren F1 record of 386.7 km/h, which was set on the 9 km straight line VW Ehra facility in Wolfsburg Germany.

Impressive! I would loive to hear a comment from the expert Gordon Murray...

www.koenigsegg.se

[mini magic]

Well, i'm glad the Koenigsegg beat it first and not the Gayron, sorry, Verywrong, sorry, Veyron. It was bound to happen eventually

[F1 monster]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Impressive! I would loive to hear a comment from the expert Gordon Murray...

I don't think Gordon Murray posts here.

[Gustav]

I dont thin that either but I beleive he can comment since he commented that the Koengisegg coudn't acheive this earlier...

Originally Posted by F1 monster

I don't think Gordon Murray posts here.

[Mr. Bernoulli]

Originally Posted by Gustav

I dont thin that either but I beleive he can comment since he commented that the Koengisegg coudn't acheive this earlier...

...and he was right. The CCR has substantially more horsepower than the CC8S, the car he was refering to.

[F1 monster]

Are you referring to his comments in Evo, where Gordon Murray just wondered if the Koenigsegg could be considered a legitimate car producer with its extremely low production numbers? Even if it has subsequently proved to be legitimate, it's certainly not equivalent. And the product, even though it uses technology that is ten years ahead, still carries only 2/3 as many people as a McLaren.

I don't think the criticism was unfounded at the time, or even now. At the time of GM's comments, CvK had produced about 8 units, including the prototype. They are up to a whopping 20 now.

[Gustav]

Yes, I am refferring to his doubts about the Koenigsegg:


JB: What about the Edonis and Koenigsegg?

GM: You almost can’t count cars like the Edonis and Koenigsegg. With the Zonda you have to take the car seriously – the quality’s not bad, he’s selling the cars, people are driving them and using them and liking them. When there are 50 Edonises driving around and people are saying ‘This is good’, I’ll consider it a proper motorcar.

JB: The Koenigsegg is aiming for 250mph, too.

GM: People never learn lesson one, which is ‘don’t shout your mouth off before you’ve built the car’. Before the 1989 world crash there was an article in Road & Track, ’24 supercars you can buy’ and I think the only ones that actually arrived were us, the Jag and the Bugatti – three out of 24. With the Koenigsegg they’re talking about a horsepower figure and top speed for which you need a Cd of about 0.17 or something. It doesn’t add up. You shouldn’t do that. We didn’t say anything about our motorcar – nobody knew it was going to be middle seat until the launch – we just shut up and built it and then let people drive it.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ghlight=murray

Not just abbout productions numbers but about his comments aboiut aerodynamics which was obviously wrong.

Carries 3 people? I think that is an irrelevant factor for a supercar.

Originally Posted by F1 monster

Are you referring to his comments in Evo, where Gordon Murray just wondered if the Koenigsegg could be considered a legitimate car producer with its extremely low production numbers? Even if it has subsequently proved to be legitimate, it's certainly not equivalent. And the product, even though it uses technology that is ten years ahead, still carries only 2/3 as many people as a McLaren.

I don't think the criticism was unfounded at the time, or even now. At the time of GM's comments, CvK had produced about 8 units, including the prototype. They are up to a whopping 20 now.

[BRX880]

In my eyes it was only a question of time and technical improvements that one day a car finally beat the 386,7 km/h of the F1.
But I don't think that there will be EVER a car holding the topspeed record for production cars that long like the F1 did 1993 - 2005. (?)
Generally they should made all topspeed tests in Ehra in future not in Nardo, because the shape of the Nardo track isn't that effective for high topspeeds.
In Nardo, with its low banked curve, there are always some few centrifugal forces over 240 Km/h effecting the topspeed ( not much but they did ).
For example the Enzo did 355 km/h last year at Nardo, but can run easily over 360 km/h.
To the Veyron:
I serioslly doubt that that car EVER top 400 Km/h!!!
It is ugly and simply fat, and only a car which looks fast is fast......
VW still losing millions through this prestigeous project!
I read recently that all technical and aerodynamical problems are solved but in test they could not go faster than 378 Km/h!!!
It may be that the planed Veyron Supersport Version with 1100 hp is a contender for the record.........

[F1 monster]

The fact that it's a 3-seater *is* relevant in the sense that a lot of performance figures are ratios. Obviously, having the ability to carry an extra occupant changes all ratios that include the occupant, or are based on the car's ability to move people (it is, after all, a mode of transport).


Just like you can think of it as being at least 10 years ahead of any car that posts similar performance numbers today, you can think of the McLaren as being 1/3 more capable than any 2-seater with equivalent numbers. And it is not irrelevant...it would matter greatly anytime there is a need to carry three people.

10 years ahead.
1 more occupant ahead.
A few Le Mans and world records ahead too.

I dunno...I prefer the McLaren by a little bit, but the ugly truth is most people in the position would have one of each...which means 5 seats total.

[Gustav]

"a mode of transport" Fast one. You think it is important for a supersportscar, I think it is not. 10 years ahead it is not relevant for me either, what is relevant is what is the fastets production car today comes from a company less than 10 years old without a history such as McLaren.

Regarding track records, the thing I care for is that the car is good on a racetrack as well as top speed which seems to be true. Of crouse Koenigsegg doesnt have the race budget or brand name as McLaren.

Edonis that is a funny car.

Also, the over 390 km/h F1 time was without mirrors I beleive?

Originally Posted by F1 monster

The fact that it's a 3-seater *is* relevant in the sense that a lot of performance figures are ratios. Obviously, having the ability to carry an extra occupant changes all ratios that include the occupant, or are based on the car's ability to move people (it is, after all, a mode of transport).

You can think of the McLaren as being 1/3 more capable than any 2-seater with equivalent numbers.

Just like you can think of it as being at least 10 years ahead of any car that posts similar performance numbers today.

10 years ahead.
1 more occupant ahead.
A few Le Mans and world records ahead too.

[F1 monster]

Everyone's taste is different...but what the market as a whole considers important is truly what is important. And considering that old Bugattis and Ferraris sell for 10 times what McLarens sell for...history does matter. The market, overall, does not think or act like you do.

[Gustav]

The market think the car is attractive and Koengisegg have difficulties on deliver on a timely basis. If it werent attractiuve Koenigsegg would have been bacrupt today. Please browse areoudn www.koenigsegg.se to see the demand all over the world.

Very few cars increase in value, McLaren F1 is one of them. I doubt the Koengisegg will be one since it is not limited edition. If McLaren F1 would not have been limited edition it would have been a different story.

[F1 monster]

Let me guess, you're of Swedish origin...?

[F1 monster]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Please browse areoudn www.koenigsegg.se to see the demand all over the world.

I browsed it...it just talks about their appearance at various trade shows around the world. Hardly a sign of demand. What are you referring to? Can you quote any text from the site that talks about this "demand?"

Not saying there's no demand, in fact I am sure there is plenty, but I don't see any mention of it on their website in my quick look. Can you cut and paste what you are referring to?

[Gustav]

16 cars have been delivered to customers as of March 2004 and Koenigsegg is working hard to until the summer to deliver the 20 more that are ordered. I'll update you on this after this week. This was over a year ago. I cant quote on the site, but I will ask them directly. We'll see when they pass the the 64 made of the McLaren F1...

I live in on Kingway Business Park, Woking, Surrey UK.











Just kidding, yes I'm from Sweden.

Originally Posted by F1 monster

I browsed it...it just talks about their appearance at various trade shows around the world. Hardly a sign of demand. What are you referring to? Can you quote any text from the site that talks about this "demand?"

Not saying there's no demand, in fact I am sure there is plenty, but I don't see any mention of it on their website in my quick look. Can you cut and paste what you are referring to?