Explanation of what happened.

[igor@af]

Hey guys, I never wanted to post any of this on the message board, but after seeing that Brian has posted a lot of bullshit about AF, I simply feel the obligation to defend myself and AF.

First, even though very long, I believe it is crucial that you read the conversation I had with Brian last night. It took place after one of my great left-hand people informed of possible conspiracy against AF by the G20 moderators. Additionally, I noticed the same post in every G20 forums by Brian - asking every user to email him his username and email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm
If you think that the person in the above conversation can do the job I've been doing on AF here, think again

To summarize: He lied to me about the purpose of the 'mailing list' he was collecting. As soon as I mentioned the rumor, he got on a defensive and began acting very unprofessional and immature. The rumor, as some of you may already know, has proved to be true. He basically wanted to flee AF with all of the G20 members, without even my knowledge, doing it all behind my back. Well... read the conversation above, it will all be clear

I would like to say that I was totally stunned when the rumor was confirmed, that Jason and Brian would do this. It still is pretty hard to believe. But since that is the path they have decided to take, I can not do anything about it, considering how Brian behaved himself in the conversation. I did not hear a single 'sorry' for the immoralities he planned on pulling on me and the whole AF, and he tried to "innocentify" himself by all means possible.

Well guys, I have to say that having run AF for 16 months now, I know that it takes way more than what Brian has demonstrated to run successfull community.

Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.

I am still very shocked and dissappointed about this. I have simply heard to many stories just like this on the internet, and G20.net was the least expected party to do what they did.
Now, that all these things are done and it appears there is no way back, I would like to rebuild the G20 community here.

First, we will need 2 or 3 honest, reasonable, mature, and knowledgable moderators for the G20 forums, is anyone interested in the position?
I am sure it will be a challenge in the beginning, since we will all have to get over this still unbelievable timetable of events, and make the community even better than it was before. But I think we can do that and much more.

Additionally, you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish, and when you see the Conspirators' new message board, you may at first glance think of it above and beyond AF - I would like to explain why you will feel this, so that no one regrets the critical choice that they might make:
Human eye and brain are pleased by something 'new,' such as new colors, a new layout, etc. Even some new pointless gadgets. But after a very short time, all of that would add up to zero. What keeps the community runnning are the members. Here we have over 40,000 posts and many members, and that is the strong display of community and survival. A new layout is not. [I wonder how they plan paying for the server, etc.]

To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:

-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.

Well, I have already typed enough.

I am still stunned and never thought I would have to do this.
It is not what they tried to do that diturbs me, but how they did it. Again, had they simply contacted me to try to resolve any of the issues, they would have been either resolved or they could do as they pleased, and I would have had no problem with that.

We need to setup new community leadership here, so if you think you can handle 'it' or think someone might, just reply back here, along with any thoughts that you may have.

Thank you guys

[cas8_1999]

In my opinion its not wrong for them to go and try to do their own thing out there on g20.net , but its the most common problem out there in the world everyone wants their own fame. Thats why you see so many car clubs blow up but then once they are big each individual wants their own claim to fame and quickly forgets about anything and anyone else.

The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models


casual

[G20 SpoRt 2002]

Originally posted by cas8_1999
In my opinion its not wrong for them to go and try to do their own thing out there on g20.net , but its the most common problem out there in the world everyone wants their own fame. Thats why you see so many car clubs blow up but then once they are big each individual wants their own claim to fame and quickly forgets about anything and anyone else.

The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models


casual

Couldnt of said it better I agree with you!

[serguy]

Originally posted by igor@af
email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm

I have a simple question.. is the link of your conversation with Brian edited in anyway?

Originally posted by igor@af
Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.

Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?

Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?

Originally posted by igor@af
To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:

-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.

I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?

Regards,

Kyle

[speediva]

I'll be honest here... the old G20.net meant nothing to me. The information on P10's was lacking immensely, so once I came to AF I never went back. Granted, I was very excited about the new G20.net and the new ownership, features, and fresh ideas. I am afraid to say that I am no longer excited about all that.

As moderators, there is a sort of kinship you ought to share with your motherboard. When you are able to turn your back and ignore everything that the host had ever done for you (which consists of getting all of us together) there must have been something wrong for quite a while.

Sure, AF has had a few problems. The popup ads aren't always fun. Not being able to upload pictures for a while had its downs, but there are remedies for these issues. Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.

I know that personally, I may go and visit the new site in question, however I know that I will remain at AF.com not only because I am a moderator and I have ties. It's because there is a giant community that exists even outside the walls of this G20 forum and the awesome sense of family that exists no matter what forum it is you decide to explore. I won't tell anyone what to do, nor will I tell anyone that they cannot do something. That would simply be outrageous. I only wish to express my personal feelings on the events that have herein taken place, and I want to clarify for everyone what my own personal intentions are with respect to everything.

I want to thank everyone who has helped me feel at home here and even given me sound advice. This G20 community has grown immensely even since I joined, and my only hope is to continue to watch it grow!

Most sincerely,
~tangie

[igor@af]

I have a simple question.. is the link of your conversation with Brian edited in anyway?
- No, it has not been touched in any way whatsoever, even though Brian would like to claim otherwise, since he has shown some aspects of him he didn't want others to see.

Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
-Without AF there would be no G20 forums that everyone claims is theirs. Surely, many members did originate from G20.net, but many also came from AF - the website recieves over 350,000 unique visitors per month, and some are G20 owners, who may not have even heard about G20.net before coming to AF.

As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?
I was never contacted by Brian or Jason in regards to any of these issues at any time.

Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?
-They cover the whole AF, and as mentioned both in my post and in the conversation, many are solved and others are on the verge of being solved.

I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?
-The attachments ARE working, have been for several days now. And yes, again, this is universal on the whole message board.


And - Thanks for your support Tangie!

[howard_w13]

I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

Sad to hear such decietful news .... That's sad...People can be so decietful and untrustworthy at times, good thing you caught the bad vibes... Everything in life can turn on you, including those that you think are on your side... Well, Good luck w/ everything Igor... Hope evertything turns out well w/ the AF forum...

CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?! :huh: :huh:
Also: Not so sure on banning people from sites... Just an opinion...

HEY!! I know I'm A Newbie, but i'd be interested in becoming a moderator as well!

[TIZAO]

Originally posted by howard_w13

I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.

yea me too......and its kinda funny how I cant reply to the message! And I am interested in being a mod! Please let me get some info! Thank you.:alien: :licker: :smoka: :flash:

[kris]

The posted converasation is the exact same one that was sent to me, during, and after they were talking. I can vaouch that it is authentic. If you want to see my copy, just let me know.



Now, for those of you who wish to be mods. PM me, and I will talk to Igor and we will see what we can do.


-Kris

[slickkedar]

Originally posted by saturntangerine
I'll be honest here... the old G20.net meant nothing to me. The information on P10's was lacking immensely.

Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.


Most sincerely,
~tangie

I think the old G20.net was what got me first interested in doing more to my car, and I'm very greatful for that.

I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.

The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

Originally posted by slickkedar


I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.

The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.

VERY TRUE

[DVSNCYNIKL]

I don't own a G20 nor do I plan on getting one. So my .02 which I am about to say has nothing to do with the car.

People have a funny way of doing things nowadays and sometimes it's not for the better. Everyone is happy in the beginning, then as time passes, they change. That is with everything in life.

The actions taken by those Moderators was nothing short of dispicable. I don't have a problem with chasing your dreams or what have you. But to do it in this manner, deceitfully, then claiming to be mature about it is nothing short of ridiculous.

I've been a Moderator on AF for a long time, and this was not the only forum that I have been a Mod on. But I've always been the type of individual that says what is on my mind. I don't fear for backlash. The fact that they went about doing it without talking with Igor shows exactly how "Honest" they were.

I don't know either one of them. I can't even speak good or bad about anyone involved with the exception of Igor. But this act definitely does not provide me with a good comment to say. For Brian, I just have one question for you. Are you not able to stand up for yourself and hold your ground on a decision that you let yourself get manipulated so easily? I'm not trying to be offensive, but based on that conversation, it didn't seem to me that you put up much of a fight. Nothing would have been wrong to be the only one to disagree.

And on the issue of AF being so big. Anyone here who honestly believes that their forums won't get big is fooling themselves. What are they gonna do, deny people the right to register when they feel that the forums are getting to big. The whole point and eventually they will realize is, money is going to be needed to run it, and unless they are filthy rich, it won't last long. This cycle repeats itself in every forum. There are some small forums out there without a doubt, but even those forums run to a problem now and then. Those who choose to let themselves to be lead, so be it.

Now I am not going to knock them for trying what they want to do. But at least be man enough to come forward and say what has to be said without being sneaky. You get no respect doing it otherwise.

DVS

[Mike.Com]

"Stealing Members?"

"...you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish."

Come on guys...you're equating the people that post on this forum to objects you possess. The people that post on this forum are human beings, able to think, process information and make proper decisions. Because I joined AF does not mean I belong to them; because I knew about AF only from G20.net does not mean G20.net owns me. I will look at both places and I will return to the place the best suits my needs.

When given another option that is better than the current, people will change to that option. If you find competition, you should concentrate on what makes your product better to keep people from leaving.

If the intent of G20.net is to "steal" members from AF then they will fail. If the intent of G20.net is to create a nice forum where people can share thier interest in G20's then they will succeed. The bottom line is that people will go where their needs are met. G20.net can e-mail me all they want, but if their site is crappy then I'm not going to post on it.

It's not like people cannot go to both AF and G20net. I'm going to go check both to find out what information I need. Naturally, the one with more information will be the one I visit more. Who will it be? Time will tell.

[igor@af]

FYI: After Brian was banned last night, he came back, managed to register another entity, and sent identical/close to identical PMs about the new G20 message board to about 40 people.