best buget car to beat STi/EVO ??

[Initial_D]

Hi there,

well I'm new to the auto x world so I want to be as good as some auto x pros
okay I will do my first legal auto x at the end of this year (( and there is enough time to make a well prepared car for this ))
my driving style is average, and my target this year is to beat some STis and Lan_evos with a light weight car.
currently I drive a 2004 impreza and its heavy some how for auto xing ......

I have 3 choices here,
1st would be either eg6 or ek9 civic
2ed would be an AE86
and finally is the 180Sx

as for the engine power I guess that 200 hp is more than enough for the civic and the 86, and if it is 180sx, 240 hp is good.
tires will be either yokohama A032R or the ES 100 (( what do you think ))

so what do you think would be the best for me
and please if you specify one don't forget to write the best setup for auto xing


and sorry if my english is bad.....

[drdisque]

CRX, Miata, or MR2

[ac427cpe]

what would be best for you, is that you get used to the car you have (if you like it).

autoX is very little part car (unless you have been doing it for a while**YEARS** and are used to that car) and VERY MUCH how good of a driver you are. your best bet would be to go with a car that you are familiar with, as unchanged as possible (so you know that you are getting better every event).

if you MUST put money into bettering your car for performance, get good tires and better suspension.

for autoX only tires: hoosier a3s04 or kumho v700 victoracers are what i would suggest

and for the suspension... you'll have to talk to subaru guys.

best of luck!

[zdude]

i used to drive a 240sx, it was very oversteer happy, and is in need of some balls. but it handled very well. light-ish. the 180sx is the same car cept j-spec i believe, with a turbo 1.8 liter motor. it might have the sr20, but i am totally out of date with this stuff as i sold my car last fall. go to the nissan 240sx/pulsar section of this site and ask those guys.


btw, the sr20 is a 2.0 turbo... comes 200+ hp

ok...just woke up now, the 180sx is a 1.8 turbo i believe the CA18DET... some how i forgot 180sx=1.8, 240sx=2.4 etc... its early, im tired

[SabreKhan]

Your Impreza (I'm assuming you have the RS) can beat Evos and STis at autocrosses, but it's really a driver vs. driver thing. If it's some old guy in an STi vs. you in a Z06 Corvette or a Porsche GT3 or a Lotus Elise, you're still going to lose. That old guy can probably still beat you even if he's pushing a grocery cart around the course. Lame wheel and everything. Get used to your own car, then upgrade it *slowly* so you can get a feel for the sport. Hopping in a fast car will make you faster, yes, but you'll still be getting beat by people in Toyota Camrys because they know how to drive.

[slideways...]

you have to swap a 4agze into the ae86 and seriously build it to even come close to 200 hp, but the 86 is like a crx, fast without lots of HP
240sx is very balanced but that means more oversteer than most people are used too but just get used to it
mr2 is fast but like any MR car it has tons of grip but it is too easy to spin out if you lose rear traction
i would race a crx, b13 sentra SE-R, miata, rx7, civic hatch(any civic hatchback is VERY capable if built right), 240sx, porsche 944, ect.

as for tires, use hoosiers
if you must use yoks use a032R because ES100 are fine for the street but you will be wanting more grip on the track

[CivicSiRacer]

http://home.dejazzd.com/mlouie/autocross.html

Also read my sig.

[Initial_D]

so the car is not the main thing, right ??
if it is all relays on how to drive then I think that I need to polish my driving skills more ... but how ?

SabreKhan,, well its not RS its GX which is 2.0 N/A with a 125 hp (( I know its unknown engine but this what we have here )).... that's why I said thats its heave, but yah maybe swapping the engine to an RS is a good idea since all the legacies here are 2.5 , but is it possible to make 200+ hp from that engine without turbo ??
also it understeers easily ?? is there a good way to get rid of it ?? I heard using 35:65 power splits is a lot of fun and make it easer to drive ..

any good idea

[SabreKhan]

Then... if you're going to do a swap, get the STi engine. In Qatar it might be a little more difficult to get the stuff, but either the 2.0L or the 2.5L STi motor swap would be good. It might be more expensive than just getting a little Civic or something, but it will be more fun.

My original advice still stands, though. Race what you've got for awhile before you upgrade. You'll better understand your needs and desires in a racecar after you've driven what you're used to for a few months.

If you *eventually* decide to upgrade your Impreza, my advice for an ideal autocross setup would be:
2.0L Japanese STi motor & turbo & management system
STi coilover suspension
Group N topmounts
STi (or other reputable brand) front and rear swaybars & links (gets rid of understeer)
8" wide tires/wheels
cheap front strut tower brace
Cusco rear V-brace (gets rid of understeer)
Cusco ladder brace (gets rid of understeer)
catless turbo-back exhaust
camber plates/bolts
STi trailing arms
Whiteline anti-lift kit
STi motor/transmission mounts
comfortable shift knob
comfortable helmet
racing harnesses

[Back]

Get a DSM AWD, do some minor building to the engine, raise the boost, and kill everything out there.

[ac427cpe]

Originally Posted by Back

Get a DSM AWD, do some minor building to the engine, raise the boost, and kill everything out there.

... suspension, tires, and driver are much more important than this idea for the beginning (or advanced) autoXer.

[nbw]

autoX/soloII is 80% driver, 15% tires and 5% car. With that said, save your money and dont worry about worthless(for now) modifications that will only bump you up in class with faster vehicles. Put your money into something like a soloII/racing school such as Evo Performance Driving School. Then after that and a handfull of autox's under your belt you will be in a better position to decide on what you wish to change on your car and be prepared to get bumped up into a different class with faster vehicles.
Tires should be the 1st thing into changing on the car(assuming everything is mechanicly sound and working properly). falken azenis (or hankook rs8 which I am hearing good things about) are really good and cheap, I wouldnt recommend them for daily driving though.
As for different cars, I dont recommend ae86's. They quite overrated these days and usualy sell for way more then what they are worth compared to other superior handling vehicles such as crx si's(1g's can be had REAL cheap) and mk1 mr2's. Actualy, there are quite a few vehicles worth listing.. ACR neon's, SA/FB(1st gen) rx7's are fun, EF civic si's and who can forget the miata!
Abit off topic but if budget autox is your game I suggest GrassRoots Motorsports Magazine. Right up your(our) alley. They have a contest every year to see who can built the fastest(drag race/autox) car for under $2005(this year is 2005, next will be 2006 ect ect). There are some crazy vehicles. One guy put a corvette engine and drivetrain into a crx! RWD v8 crx!
Check out the message board here.


*edit: maybe its time NBW learns to use english...
post should be easier to read now. Sorry

[SidewaysGts]

A dsm for autox? your kidding right? Even with a good driver youd have problems, the turning radius is like that of an suv.. they can be built good for striaght line if you know how to avoid snapping your tranny, but autox.. i shutter at the thought.

I agree with pretty much most of what everyone said before hand- In autox a LOT of whats going to happen is based on the driver instead of the car this time. Even if your behind a high powered car you may even pull slower times- its easier to make a mistake and youve few chances to even use all that power.

If you want to get better ask one of the better peopel around there to ride along with you, or ask if you can ride along with them- they can point out and show you things you may not have noticed.

Practice shifting braking and throttle control to its finest- learn what a good line is and how to take it- find the advantages of trail braking in such tight conditions- etc. Theres so many places to advance its not even funny.

If you get to a point where you feel you want the ultimate car for autox, theres 2 suggestions. first is the miata, the 2nd is the mr2 MRS. these little things are top dogs in SCCA events, nothing like watching the face of a man with a z06 corvette go to shit after he finds out the little 140hp miata just schooled his time.

[nbw]

I get the strangest feeling I have been paraphrased.. o_O
hehe

I wouldnt mock the dsm's too much though. Dispite every disadvantage they have in autox(and boy howdy do they have a bunch) I have still seen and heard of examples of them doing very well. If you want a cheap car that can go fast and autox is then I dont see why not a DSM.. if you dont mind their many many mechanical quirks. But if your only goal is a good car to autox in then I would agree it would be wise to look elsewhere.
I'd still argue that the c5 z06 is the top dog of the cones at the momment though. They pull in the best times in stock class in most cases. Miata's are great becuase not only have they pull out extremely good times and are practicly dominate in everyclass they are allowed to compete in but they are cheap and abundent which has lead to a huge following for them which as lead to allot of really good drivers to adopt them.
I guess either car can be considerd king of the cones depending on how you look at it.

[SabreKhan]

Case in point: The autocross I went to this weekend was attended by a C5 Corvette, an STi, and several heavily modified WRXes. I drive a basically stock WRX (short-throw shifter and cat-back exhaust). I'm still on my stock tires, which are generally known to be the worst tires on the face of the Earth. I was the second-fastest car at the event, behind a race-ready BMW M3. 90% driver, for sure.