92 cutlass 3.1 stalling, please help!

[tonylemt]

I have a 92 cutlass, 3.1L, about 6 months ago i put the stp super concentrated fuel injector cleaner in my car with practically no gas, (thinking it would clean it better), i didnt know you needed a full tank to use the stuff.
well, ever since then it will stall when i come to a stop (when in drive), but if in neutral, it stays alive. I dont know what it could be.... I've been told it was my catylatic converter, i must have damaged it when the gasolines were not properly mixed, and now it's clogged. is this a possibility? What could this problem be most associated with? sparks, pcv, fuel filter are fine. has anyone else ever done this? how can i fix this problem? help is greatly appreciated.

[jsgold]

It is possible for the converter to cause this if overheated enough, but I would try and rule other things out first. Might be better if you described the stalling. Does the engine simply idle poorly, or just at stops? Does it idle at same speed as always, but shuts down? Does it start back Ok and does it stall again when put into gear, or just go on going? Does it do this all the time? The TCC solenoid goes out in these GM cars a lot and will cause stalling at stops after warmup. However what happens is that the car wil shudder when stopping, and feel like an old standard shift car in high gear. Stalls and will start back OK, but won't run in gear unless it cools down a bit. If it is idleing poorly you might want to pull the IAC control to see if carbon is clogging it, and check for vacuum leaks. Will cause stalling too. If you have not done so I would suggest checking your computer for any stored codes, which may have set when stalling. A map sensor can cause this as well. Does the car run hotter than normal? That could point to the converter. I could be wrong, but I don't think a single can of cleaner would ruin the converter.

[tonylemt]

well, the can was super concentrated. you really think it would be the IAC or the clutch thing on the tranny, it happened right after i put that can in. it has to do something with that (so i think), it ran really good before hand. It does idle bad,(when in nuetral) i can also here a knocking sound from the engine compartment, it goes away a little when i use higher quality gas. its fine when i drive, but when i come to an idle, (after a while and it's warm) it will idle bad, it feels like it will die and then be ok, is that hesitation? it will idle at different speeds usually. sometimes when it dies i can start it and sometimes i cant. it doesnt vibrate when coming to a stop. Most of the time it will stay alive and idle hard when in neutral, but in gear (overdrive) it will die. what is the difference between engine performance in gears? I will check the idle air control, could the can affect that? could an 02 censor cause it to die.

[jsgold]

Hesitation is when you give the vehicle gas and it hesitates to increase engine rpm's for a small amount of time. the fact that your car sometimes won't start is a concern, and it sounds like possibly more than one problem. You may have lost your O2 sensor, as high temp from the cleaner could have ruined it. That would cause poor idle as your car would probably run rich. I would pull the plugs too, just in case you have overheated them and burned one or two out. Clean the IAC, it will help in case some carbon has logged in there. If it is badly clogged your car will be hard pressed to idle. Again, the cleaner may have affected it or maybe carbon loosened up and is clogging it. Your car is equipped with a knock sensor, and that too may be bad now. May be why you hear noises from your engine. What would really help would be if you had 1-2 trouble codes from your car's computer. With all of this stalling there should be codes. Have you had the computer checked? You can have this done at most any auto parts store such as Advance or Autozone. That would point the finger in one or two directions. There are other things that can cause stalling, such as weak ignition module, crank senor failing, but these would not be affected by your cleaner. Check the forum for threads concerning clogged converters. I am sure that would cause a lot of trouble. I have not had one do this so am unable to advise. Perhaps another member can advise on this.

[tonylemt]

your advice has been very helpful. I recently had the converter changed and the car idle's alot better but still dies in drive. I also put new bosch platinum plugs and wire's in and it idle'e even better than after i put in a new converter. how do i clean the IAC and do you know where it is? I tried to bring it to autozone to get the codes checked and they said my car is too old to do that. they can only check trouble codes for cars 96 and up.
"If it is badly clogged your car will be hard pressed to idle"
what does this mean?
If the 02 censor was affected would it cause the car to die? i will replace it anyways. if there is two, should i replace both?

[jsgold]

Your Idle air control can have carbon build up over the years, and will hurt your idle. It is a small device that has two screws holding it in, and a wire plug. If yours has multi port fuel injection it should be in front of motor, near intake. If is throttle body equipped it should be on the throttle body (the throttle body looks a littel like a carburator.) Pull it out, (don't lose the rubber seal on it) and clean off any carbon with carb cleaner and a paper towel. Don't squeeze the spring or you can cause damage to it. Clean the area around it and put it back in. On the O2 sensor it should be in the rear of the engine in the exhaust manifold. It has a wire plug running to it. It takes a special tool to take out ( socket with a slot in it) you can buy at any auto parts store for a few bucks and the sensor should not be expensive(although they are for some). If your car runs better with the converter I bet your o2 sensor has been oveheated and should be replaced. However I hate to see anyone buy parts they don't need. Might be best for you to invest 20 bucks in an OBDI tester and a Haynes manual. get those at any Adavnce Auto or Autozone. then you can deal wih these things with photos and instructions. Can you drive the car at all, or does it stall so badly it won't restart? Does it stall all the time when put in gear or just when driven for a while and then stopping??? (and yes, both O2 and IAC will cause bad idle.) Check those plugs too.

[tonylemt]

I put new plugs and wire in it, it does idle better but i can tell there is still something else. I can still drive it, it takes a couple cranks to start in the morning. It will crank, but it takes a while for the engine to turn. when driving 10-15 min if it stalls, sometimes it will start and sometimes it wont. when i come to a stop. it will stall in gear after 10 min of driving, therefore i hav to stick it in neutral to stay alive. i will try the IAC and see what happens, the idle sounds like it changes speeds, it also sounds very deep with vibration like a fast pulse. sometimes, when at a complete stop up a hill, i have to put it in park and take my foot off the brake, sometimes it will die in neutral if my foot is on the brake. Is it using more gas or something? I just want to be able to drive in gear without it dying. sometimes my car will stall when im decelerating (in gear) under 5 mph, it shakes or vibrates hard before doing so.

[jsgold]

It sounds more and more like your TCC solenoid is sticking. Here is what normally happens. Car does great until it is run a while, then when slowing down to a stop is shakes, shudders and stalls when stopped. will restart but will stall when put in forward or reverse. When it cools down a while (5-15 minutes) it goes normal again. VERY common problem. It is in your transmission and it won't let your torque coverter release. The solenoid gets clogged with junk in the fluid or just goes bad and can be replaced (can be a chore) or, a lot of people unhook it. Depends on the vehicle. Most 3 speeds can be unhooked, and 4 speeds cannot. I don't have a service manual on your car, but I think it sits under the air cleaner (where most GM3.1's are) and requires you to remove the filter cover, hose, filter, and then the base that the filter sits in. Look for a 4 prong connector sitting on top of your transmission, and unhook it. Assemble the cleaner and try it. If it runs normal that is the problem. can try to replace it yourself, or have a transmission shop do it (150-250+). Many people just leave them unhooked. Just will use a bit more gas, but not much.

[tonylemt]

I want to thank you for your replies, I will go ahead and test the TCC solenoid tonight. Like i said, sometimes it does not restart (i have to wait anout 10 min) when it stalls, could it still be the tcc?

[jsgold]

No, the TCC would only cause it to stall when in forward or reverse. Would not cause car to not start. If the car dies and won't start it is a different matter all together. I know I am throwing a lot at you but it is hard to diagnose these things sometimes. Your engine is also a little different than Chev. 3.1's which I have more knowledge of. If it won't restart (in park or neutral) after running you may have a crank sensor or a ignition module failing. Again, the TCC while a common problem, would only cause your engine to stall out when in gear. Your crank senor is a device that is several inches long and it actually for the most part inside your engine I believe. It "reads" where your crankshaft is and tells your computer when to fire your plugs, and they can go bad and act like this. On my dad's Olds, his is under the ignition module, but his is a 2.5 4 cyl and yours is different. You should be able to get to yours pretty easy and they are cheap @ 16-20 bucks. I ended up replacing BOTH of his but it was due to hard starts. His ignition module was weak, and the crank sensor, being that part is inside the engine and exposed to hot oils etc. was cracked and in bad shape. Really suggest getting a manual to show you where these things are. Most likley this is in front of your motor, but I cannot say where on yours. Most likely all you will see is the plug running into it.

[uummm]

you could have a bad knock sensor, what gas does your car reccomend, i know that some high output motors reccomend premium, thats how my brothers car is. check your o2 sensor if you havent already, that is a common problem when your exhaust gasses are too hot or you have alot of carbon build up on it. have you tried running it really hard when accelerating, if you have some built up carbon deposits it may blow them out, its good to do that sometimes. other than that, see if you can have your coils tested and see if you have a weak ignition, and the crank sensor is a good idea as well. check where your idle is set, maybe it is set too low, but i dont think that would cause an irradic idle. thats about all i can think of, let us know.

[tonylemt]

well i tested the tcc solenoid, when i drove home from work i turned the car off, took out the tcc solenoid electrical connector abd started it up in drive it did stay alive without dying, then i drove it around the block to make sure, when i came to a stop it waited about 30 seconds before stalling. I went 25 mph tops around the block, do i have to drive it at a high speed to get it out of being stuck in 3rd gear (with the connector unplugged)? If i dont figure it out today i think im just gonna take it to pep boys and have them do a diagnostic on it. Would a bad knock sensor cause my car to die? where is it? I forgot to mention the fact that my heater core blew two weeks ago and had to fix that, It wasnt too hard, but i had to replace a the bottom radiator hose that connects to the heater core. I cut it too short and when I dropped the engine to its normal position, it pinched the hose, so now the hose is pinched, i thought it would go back to normal after pressure of the anifreeze hit it, i guess not. Would this cause stalling or loss of accerleration? before my car used to die when decerlerating below 6-7 mph, now it stops and takes 10-15 seconds. It stalls really wierd, it will jurk the car and feel like it will die, then be fine, and back and forth, and then finally just die. could my could my tcc solenoid be cure now but have another problem? I also forgot to mention, when my car used to stall or die, it wouldn't start up right away, now it does (without the tcc solenoid plugged in)

[jsgold]

Well, the car will no go as fast as before with the TCC unhooked, but should run pretty close. Sounds like that is not the answer to me. Get the car checked for codes. I think other than guessing and pouring money into it that is your best bet right now.