ZX2 no start condition after CEL

[Mazda_Power]

I was driving my girlfriend's 00' ATX, when the engine started to "chug" when the car slowed. At the stop sign the car died, but started back up. The CEL came on following startup and the transmission was very unresponsive and had trouble getting into 4th gear. When I got back home I shut off the car and went to bed. The next day I went out to start it and the engine wouldn't turn over.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:
The starter spins BUT the motor does not.

(I've posted this in other forums and people just didn't get it!)

I tried to get an OBD-II scan tool, but it is presently being serviced. My next step was to remove the starter and "hot wire" it to see if the armature inside was working and the starter gear would extend into the flexplate. I'm also going to take a look and see what the flexplate looks like.

If you have any ideas that may help don't hesitate to post them!

Thanks,

Aaron

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by Mazda_Power

I was driving my girlfriend's 00' ATX, when the engine started to "chug" when the car slowed. At the stop sign the car died, but started back up. The CEL came on following startup and the transmission was very unresponsive and had trouble getting into 4th gear. When I got back home I shut off the car and went to bed. The next day I went out to start it and the engine wouldn't turn over.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:
The starter spins BUT the motor does not.

(I've posted this in other forums and people just didn't get it!)

I tried to get an OBD-II scan tool, but it is presently being serviced. My next step was to remove the starter and "hot wire" it to see if the armature inside was working and the starter gear would extend into the flexplate. I'm also going to take a look and see what the flexplate looks like.

If you have any ideas that may help don't hesitate to post them!

Thanks,


Aaron

Are you SURE that the starter is freewheeling? An engine with a broken timing belt and no compression SOUNDS like the starter isn't engaged to some degree, cuz it spins very fast and has no compression pulses. I wondered if it ripped a few teeth off the belt, screwing up your valve timing, hobbled home, then snapped or stripped the belt when you shut it off.

Look down inside the valve cover through the oil fill while someone cranks it over. If the valvetrain ain't movin', that's what happened.

[Mazda_Power]

I don't think so, but I will look.

I know what a snapped or off timing belt sounds like (unfortunatly).

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by Mazda_Power

I don't think so, but I will look.

I know what a snapped or off timing belt sounds like (unfortunatly).

I do too, but I've been fooled before.

[Mazda_Power]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

I do too, but I've been fooled before.

Fooled huh? ... I'll have to take a look.

[jeffcoslacker]

I had an old chevy in the shop once, sounded like the timing chain broke. EXACTLY like it. Luckily, I had someone crank it for me while I checked to see if the distributor was turning. It was then that I noticed that the crank wasn't turning either. The ring gear came off the flexplate, and was just spinning around the outside of it when you cranked the starter. Never seen that before. Never know with cars what they'll think of.

[Mazda_Power]

Cams move! Still no start!

[zx2srdotnet]

If teh car was chugging while it did run, teh transmissions isnt acting right and you cant get it to restart i'd think maybe the PCM went, i cant think of anything else that would effect the motor AND tranny

[jeffcoslacker]

Hmmm. Still might have jumped time. Or not.

Are you able to pull the code?

[jeffcoslacker]

You said the starter wasn't engaging, what became of that? (wondering how you verified cam movement without starter) Confused.

[Mazda_Power]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

You said the starter wasn't engaging, what became of that? (wondering how you verified cam movement without starter) Confused.

Yeah... that was a really stupid mistake on my part... I THOUGHT the car's starter wasn't engaging because there was little to no vibration/noise of the engine turning over and I was only able to look at it myself. Upon changing the starter I used jumper cables to test the new one before I put it in. Then once the old one was out I tested it. It worked just fine. I felt like an idiot. I put the other one back in just to be sure. I had someone come over and take a look at the cams through the valve cover. They spun. I also get spark and fuel. So I don't know what the problem is! I checked the oil it was like 2 quarts high so I drained out the Mobil 1 Synthetic and added good 'ol Supertech. I thin it had something to do with flooding. Once the oil level was returned to normal I pulled the plugs out and looked at them. The were wet. They were also brand new (1-2 days old and properly gapped). I then checked them for spark and they were a nice bright white. Then I used a flashlight to look down inside the cylinder to watch the piston go up and down to get an idea of when the spark was occuring. I know this isn't the best way to go about checking the timing, but I just wanted to see if it was way off (which it wasn't). After I checked that out I dried off the plugs reinstalled them and unplugged the injectors (I actually did this when I was turning over the engine). I tried turning it over with the injectors unplugged just to try and combust any fuel that was inside. It actually fired once or twice (a big step in the development)! So I was pretty happy, I plugged the injectors back in and turned it over. Nothing happened. I was a bit confused. I pulled the plugs back out. They were wet. I took them inside last night to dry off and I thought I'd let the engine "air out" to try and get the gas to evaporate.

I also used a Genisys scan tool to check the codes. The only one available was P1000: (something like) "Drivablity Tests Unfinished"

Why would the ECU just up and die... sounds weird. The car is a 00 this stuff shouldn't happen to cars that are this new.

Is it posible that the fuel pressure regulator went bad and when the injectors fire they supply full fuel pressure?

I don't know I'm running out of ideas... I'm going to go and look up P1000.

[zx2srdotnet]

Im on my 4th PCM in under 3 months

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by Mazda_Power

Yeah... that was a really stupid mistake on my part... I THOUGHT the car's starter wasn't engaging because there was little to no vibration/noise of the engine turning over and I was only able to look at it myself. Upon changing the starter I used jumper cables to test the new one before I put it in. Then once the old one was out I tested it. It worked just fine. I felt like an idiot. I put the other one back in just to be sure. I had someone come over and take a look at the cams through the valve cover. They spun. I also get spark and fuel. So I don't know what the problem is! I checked the oil it was like 2 quarts high so I drained out the Mobil 1 Synthetic and added good 'ol Supertech. I thin it had something to do with flooding. Once the oil level was returned to normal I pulled the plugs out and looked at them. The were wet. They were also brand new (1-2 days old and properly gapped). I then checked them for spark and they were a nice bright white. Then I used a flashlight to look down inside the cylinder to watch the piston go up and down to get an idea of when the spark was occuring. I know this isn't the best way to go about checking the timing, but I just wanted to see if it was way off (which it wasn't). After I checked that out I dried off the plugs reinstalled them and unplugged the injectors (I actually did this when I was turning over the engine). I tried turning it over with the injectors unplugged just to try and combust any fuel that was inside. It actually fired once or twice (a big step in the development)! So I was pretty happy, I plugged the injectors back in and turned it over. Nothing happened. I was a bit confused. I pulled the plugs back out. They were wet. I took them inside last night to dry off and I thought I'd let the engine "air out" to try and get the gas to evaporate.

I also used a Genisys scan tool to check the codes. The only one available was P1000: (something like) "Drivablity Tests Unfinished"

Why would the ECU just up and die... sounds weird. The car is a 00 this stuff shouldn't happen to cars that are this new.

Is it posible that the fuel pressure regulator went bad and when the injectors fire they supply full fuel pressure?

I don't know I'm running out of ideas... I'm going to go and look up P1000.

You can test your regulator if you have access to a fuel pressure gauge, hook it to the rail and see if the pressure is within spec, then pinch the return line. If the pressure shoots up, the reg is bad. But I doubt that's the problem. It seems more like the ECM is commanding full rich for some reason. I bet he's right, the ECM committed suicide.

[jeffcoslacker]

The only other time I remember running across a full rich fault like this where it would drench the plugs with fuel instantly, the coolant temp sensor had been damaged and was telling the ECM something really wrong about engine temp, but this was shown by a code that the reading was out of range. Your code (granted, I'm not familiar with recent Ford codes) sounds like what might happen if a self-test was not going correctly. Make sure any grounds associated with sensors or the ECM are intact before you replace it.

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by Mazda_Power

I checked the oil it was like 2 quarts high so I drained out the Mobil 1 Synthetic and added good 'ol Supertech. I thin it had something to do with flooding. Once the oil level was returned to normal I pulled the plugs out and looked at them. The were wet. They were also brand new (1-2 days old and properly gapped). I then checked them for spark and they were a nice bright white. Then I used a flashlight to look down inside the cylinder to watch the piston go up and down to get an idea of when the spark was occuring. I know this isn't the best way to go about checking the timing, but I just wanted to see if it was way off (which it wasn't). After I checked that out I dried off the plugs reinstalled them and unplugged the injectors (I actually did this when I was turning over the engine). I tried turning it over with the injectors unplugged just to try and combust any fuel that was inside. It actually fired once or twice (a big step in the development)!
Is it posible that the fuel pressure regulator went bad and when the injectors fire they supply full fuel pressure?

I don't know I'm running out of ideas... I'm going to go and look up P1000.

I just reread this a little more carefully. You defininately had fuel in the oil. You should have a really clean engine now, but you need to change the oil again once this is sorted out- it's probably already contaminated to some degree. Last time I saw one that bad was a Nissan that went nuts, it would even keep spraying fuel with the key off. It ran the battery dead overnight, hydrolocked the cylinders with fuel, and filled the crankcase entirely with gas.

Yours isn't that bad, but along the same lines. I doubt you're spraying with the ignition off. I don't think that's really possible, the way they are set up now. Have to have a dwell signal from the ECM to spray.