"It Was Her Choice"

[DantesInferno]

In modern society, parental obligations have seemingly been nullified for men. If a man and a woman have sex, and the woman becomes pregnant, a woman's responsiblity for that child is automatic, whereas a man clearly has the opportunity to walk away, wiping his hands clean of the situation. Indeed, court cases demanding child support from the father of an illegitimate child have been ended, allowing the father to walk away on the argument that, "It was her choice to have the baby". Do you agree with this arguement? Many of you have touched on the fact that if you were to have sexual relations with a girlfriend and she was to become pregnant, you would be inclined to have her get an abortion, however, if she chose not to, do you feel that your parental obligations to that child end with her decision?

[DMC12]

It has to be one way or the other - 50-50 decision or 100-0.

If things are going to be totally "her choice", then she is responsible. You can't drag a man in at that point & then force him to pay for something that he had no say over. If he had 0% say in the decision to nuture the child, then he has $0 financial obligations.

[DMC12]

By the way, you do think too much!

Or should I say "plot", since you're from the Pacific Northwest... Single Mother Capital of the World!!!

[Thunda Downunda]

very thoughtful questions

I can't presume to speak for others, but in my world 'pro choice' is a 'right' .. but never an obligation.
I see 4 rights.
Obviously that of the mother, child and father
- but also recognising society's rights and obligations to itself, as well as those of guardianship towards the child, & the individual parents.
Of course ideally a child should thrive and enjoy with two loving parents as an expression of their love. Both M & F are rash and cruel fools to create the unwanted.

However, it's a sadly not uncommon fact for men to fall prey to unwitting and unwelcome fatherhood by their sexual partner's covert means: "honey I (conveniantly) 'forgot' to take the pill" - or even sabotaging condoms. I've seen that one myself .. luckily i DID see it!

I am unaware of the court cases you mention, but here's my view:

Roll on the day that an affordable (perhaps even free) male-contraceptive-pill becomes available.

The mother in consultation with her (compotent) doctor should have the ultimate right to decide re abortion.

If she so chooses not to, against the wishes of a reluctant father, then his financial contribution and burden towards the child could be notably lessened, by courts .. but never eliminated.

As for moral obligations oh if only we had a pill to fix that

[whttrshpunk]

I think it's a ridiculous thought that if a man says to abort the baby and the woman says not to, that his financial obligations should be nil. Maybe from now on whenever I lease a car or a house I'll just kill whoever holds the note on it that way I'm free from owing them money. It took 2 people to make the child,takes 2 to raise it.The end.

[Setanta]

Responsibility for a child should be the cornerstone of society. I teach too many fucked up kids whose sole-parents are doing it tough (male and female).

It's a fairly clear issue for me. I was in a relationship brought about more through the birth of my oldest daughter than anything else. I couldn't imagine simply backing away from something that I was responsible for. The relationship deteriorated over 7 years to the point it broke down completely between my ex and myself - despite the fact that we had 4 kids. Despite this I would never desert my kids. I support them voluntarily and see them as often as I can.

I don't think that running away was an issue I ever really considered even though we seperated. Today all is amicable between us and we both tend to put the kids first.

Responsibility is paramount as far as I'm concerned - I don't have too much time for those that get their kicks and then disappear off the scene completely.

[Gonthrax]

I beleave that the responsibility lies with both parents because, with a few exceptions, as the old catch phrase goes it takes two to tango. If you are responsible enough to be having sex then you are responsible enough to accept the repercussions of what you have done. Any attempt to shirk on these responsibilitys is downright wrong in my eyes. Like I said there are a few exceptions, and in most of them it would be the woman who shouldn't be required to share in the parental dutys, but to find a woman who does not want to care for her child is rare although ti does happen.

[DVSNCYNIKL]

Good topic, obviously started by none other than Dantes.

Without going into great detail, I'm going to say my .02 on this.

Touching a little with what Gonthrax said, both parties are responsible. However, there are situations or circumstances that present themselves which clearly make this a very debateable topic.

On one hand I am inclined to say that if you're grown up enough to sleep with a person, you're grown up enough to accept the possible repercussions of your actions. I firmly believe that when someone consents to having sex, they already know and are aware of the fact that the possibility of getting her pregnant or contracting a disease is always there. Speaking as a guy, and speaking as one who has been in situations where I found myself with making or participating in a decision that involves a pregnancy, I have to say that guys ultimately have to make a clear choice before engaging in sex. Bottom line is, if you're just looking to have fun and keep it moving, think also that she is looking for the same thing and not trying to be tied down with a child.

Although I don't put my personal business out there, I feel that I will justify my case by citing examples that I've gone through. I've had eight instances with 8 different females that had contacted me afterwards with a phone call to notify me that they were pregnant. Now I am one to readily admit that at those times, I was not ready financially, mentally or physically to be a father. This is something that I had pointed out to the involved parties. Of the 8, only 3 gave me a hard time about getting an abortion. Yes, I am guilty of getting into these girls heads and convincing them that this was the right thing to do. I pointed out the facts that were going to be involved with a child in the middle of all this and they all eventually saw my viewpoint and went through with it. Not something that I am particularly proud of or care to brag about. I've been around the block and back. These pregnancies of course were not planned, so to say that I was shocked to find out would be an understatement.

I think that in the end, the female as well as the male have to come to some sort of agreement. Bringing up a child in this day and age is not the same as it was "back in tha day".

Females though, sometimes put men in certain situations which may lead men to question the truthfulness of their actions. I've personally seen one such female convince a friend or associate I should say of mine, that she was pregnant with his child. Now I don't need to tell you how nervous he got since he was only a teen, about 16 or 17 at the time. All he kept thinking about was how his family was going to look down upon him and how would he ever be able to maintain this child. I personally never met this girl, but after meeting her when she was just a few months away from giving birth, I just had a feeling in me that told me she was lying. For 8 months, this associate was going crazy borderline insanity on what the hell he was going to do. Going only with my gut feeling I told him to get a test done to see if it was really his kid. Of course he took offense to it right from the start because he thought I was trying to say that she was messing around on him. I told him flat out, what do you have to lose. If you don't want to speak to me ever again, I didn't care, I would keep it moving. But If I was right, all this anxiety that you're going through will be for nothing. It took him about a week or so before he approached the girl and told her about taking the test because he wanted to be sure. He tried getting in touch with me but at that time I had already finished school and had left that area never to return. I found out through a mutual friend that the test came back negative. It wasn't his child. Needless to say, I'm sure he must have been relieved to know that.

My whole thing with pointing this out is, if you're going to have sex, be smart about it. In the unlikely event that she should come out pregnant, I say that both of you have to look at your situations financially, physically, mentally and even spiritually, and ask yourselves "Will I be able to bring up this child in a good environment?"

A good environment is not only having a roof over your head either. It takes a father and a mother to raise a child. Anyone can be a mommy or daddy. But to bring up a child in this society knowing all the evils and challenges that my lay ahead of him/her is something that you both should consider before doing anything.

So my answer will be that both parties involved should come to a clear agreement. That means if the male partner is clearly saying he is not able to, you should really consider not bringing a child to this world. Likewise for the females, if you aren't ready and clearly this is not the person you plan on having kids with, take the necessary precautions. I really find it pathetic when either one says, "but it doesn't feel the same" as a viable excuse to have unprotected sex.


Wow, that was more than I planned to speak. :sun:

[ragt20]

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL
Good topic, obviously started by none other than Dantes.

Without going into great detail, I'm going to say my .02 on this.

wonders how long he'd take if he went into great detail

[Setanta]

Heheh - I'm glad we didn't get the bargain $1 deal

[DVSNCYNIKL]

Originally posted by ragt20


wonders how long he'd take if he went into great detail

Bite me!

[DVSNCYNIKL]

Originally posted by Setanta
Heheh - I'm glad we didn't get the bargain $1 deal

Take a long walk off a short pier.:silly2: :finger:

[Setanta]

Would that short pier equate to your $0.02 worth? :finger:

[DantesInferno]

Ahem...I'd like to direct your attention to the above poll. It's a poll. It's anonymous. You have to make a selection and then submit your vote. It's a two-step process. Simple. Clear cut. Important. If you have a personal preference to not participating in the above poll, please PM me. At which point I will break out my Karate Kid moves for you tough guys, or my extreme tickling powers against those with less of an edge.

Your opinion matters to me. Thank you for your written responses...NOW VOTE PEOPLE!

DantesInferno will now clear her throat and step off her early morning soapbox.

[ragt20]

there is something wrong with your poll, I've tried to Vote a number of times now and keep on getting the following message :

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Thank you for voting. You will now be taken back to the poll.

and then it goes back a page but gives me oppurtunity to vote again, which shouldn't happen.