Society of Domination?

[DantesInferno]

We live in a patriarchal society. Would you consider this society one created by a forced system of domination? Or do you consider our society one that has become institutionalized and maintained as such? Do you ever question whether or not a dominant system can be such if some members of the dominant group (in this case, men) don't feel the power, or some members of the oppressed group (in this case, women) do?

Personally, I am less inclined to call our society one established through a forced system of domination. In my opinion, the patriarchal dominance of our modern society has become institutionalized as such, and consequently maintained. Clearly, there are men in society who do not garnish the power or the priviledges men encounter purely for the sake of being male. On the flip side, there are many women who are considered quite powerful in society and dominate their fields, yet many are surely faced with intense criticism and fall under greater scrutiny than men holding the same position.

What do you think?

[JD@af]

Expand on the notion of "a forced system of domination" before I proceed, please.

[Setanta]

Our society's cultural heritage is such that male dominance is always a factor. To say that it is forced is questionable as quite often the stereotype is enforced by both genders by their actions and the socialisation process within many cultures.

When you examine the glass ceiling and look at the roles of women in the workforce, politics etc, it's quite possible to concur that society discriminates against women in a position of power. But I think that it is something that is accepted, rather than enforced.

[texan]

I think that before one can consider the idea of a patriarchal dominated society, one must ask what that means. Because in today's society, in the confines of where I live and the people I run into on a day-to-day basis, ours is anything but. Women are considered oppressed, unjustly stereotyped, underappreciated and to top it off taken for granted. Which means that, on the average (here in So Cal), people think that women hold lower positions of authority than they should, purely based upon sexual discrimination. Now I ask you, is that the position of a patriarchal society, or one of matriarchal dominance in which the men are seen as unjust and unworthy holders of percieved power? In today's society, as far as I see it on a daily basis, there is nothing more undeserving of attention and/or sympathy than the average successful white male going about his business.

And further, I think we will only be a truly equal society when the same decisions to put scantily clothed people in ads, gratuitous sex in movies and other forms of entertainment, and such other commonly held ideals that men force upon the population are carried out by women in equally powerful positions. The truth is that all these ideas are not strictly masculine but are simply human, and that we will be truly equal only when the average person understands that such ideas and decisions are made out of something entirely independent of the need for sexual superiority. To put it simply, power corrupts, and it corrupts equally across all sexual boundaries. The sooner that people learn how equal men and women are in terms of their high AND low points, the sooner they can get off their high horses and realize we are all equally degradable in the face of corruption, the sooner this whole idea that one sex holds the other down in today's society can be gotten over. I mean honestly, does anyone really believe that females as a whole are held down due strictly to their sex? Men have and always will worship women, and the smarter of them have long used that fact for careful manipulation of our sex to their end. And we still love them for it, worship them for it, and get wholely behind the idea that the average male has some seriously bad ideas about where women should be in the stature of life. However, I for one know enough women who are plenty stronger in mental fortitude than the average male to dispell this idea, and since the only commodity that really matters anymore is intelligence and mental toughness in today's business market I reject the idea that this is a patriarchal society. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[texan]

BTW, I would challenge anyone here to define how our society is patriarchal, aside from that fact that married women generally take the name of their husband and not the other way around. How is it that men are in aggregate dominating this society?

[Setanta]

Gender bias in top level jobs, politics, child-rearing, attitudes to traditional housework - should I go on?

[texan]

Well then let's define what I consider to be a society of domination, since that's really at the heart of my point. A society must have an institutionalized system (whether formal or informal) of oppression, some sort of benefits setup for the dominate group that aren't available to others, and generally must look down on any attempts of the oppressed to help themselves out. Such a system is clearly evident in turn of the century America, in today's Afghanistan, and many other government and society mores all over the world. However NONE of these things are seen in today's America, in fact not only is equal treatment given to women in all corvers of government, employment and major social settings, but often preferential treatment is given. The majority of the population is in aggreement that women deserve a fair shot at anything that has traditionally been seen as a "man's" job. The powers that be have also seen fit to remove the ancient roadblocks existing in our 100 year old industrial society for the betterment of women's rights, including but not limited to their participation is such previously closed circles as the military. Now I ask you, if our society is truly male dominated, why are those same men removing all institutionalized forms of sexual discrimination (as they pertain to women) and imposing harsh penalties for those caught upholding such unreasonable ideals?

I know that not all aspects of our culture are indescriminate to gender, and some are that way for good reason. For instance, in child custody cases the woman has to be a terrific screw up for them to even consider giving custody rights to the men. Additionally, it's rare the woman ever has to pay any type of child support to the man if he does get custody, and visitation rights are virtually never pulled from the mother. Why? Becuase women are seen as the primary parent of any child they gave birth to, and although you alluded to the tradional family structure and child rearing earlier as an example of male dominance, the truth is it cuts both ways. As do virtually all examples in today's society, and the ones which currently don't (such as upper corporate management structures) are already archaic at best. Today a woman has the ability to become anything she wants to, from a soldier to a corporate raider to and oldtime homemaker. It all depends on what she wants and not what is in place from past generations, which is all that matters. And that's anything but a gender dominated society in my eyes.

[Setanta]

Now look at the statistics and tell me that there is equal representation of the sexes in your cited cases Bloody hell - you're making me come across as a feminist.

Anyway, opression is not a correct definition as it is too extreme. I'd argue that there is a level of gender bias within society, whether it be deliberate or not.

[DantesInferno]

Originally posted by JD@af
Expand on the notion of "a forced system of domination" before I proceed, please.

Patience is a virtue.