Honda Civic

[beef_bourito]

First of all, to stop any flamming, I am NOT a ricer or ever will be, personally, I hate big mufflers on compacts.

Now thats that's done and over with, to my topic: Building an under-cover performance honda civic.

It's going to be my first car, I want to get an '80-90 something civic for really (and I mean really) cheap, the older and rustier the better. Then i want to get spraypaint (yes, spraypaint) and do a 2-tone, red and black, paint job (top red and bottom black) with silver flames comming out of the front. This is just because people will expect to see a POS, plus i really want to make my first car look really stupid but in a way sweet (just cuz it will be completely unique)

How much would I have to spend to get a civic up to say, 300-400Hp? I would like to turbocharge it, get a performance exhaust that's as quiet as possible, suspension, I was thinking an air suspension because it's so easily adjustable, and engine work of course, and still have it as a daily driver.

I would like to be able to take this to the track on weekends and be competitive.

I really only have like 5 grand to spend when I get the car, if that, but I can get more, I need upgrades that I can do over a weekend or over maybe 5 days (3 hours a day after school) because i go to a bording school and I would need to drive it home.
P.S. I don't want to do an engine swap, I was thinking of swaping to an integra engine for more displacement and more potential but it's too expensive. I also don't want to replace the engine because that's too expensive.

[TheSilentChamber]

It wont happen. To get a four cylinder honda motor to 3-400 hp your going to have to be running serious amounts of boost and running serious hardware to support that. third gen Si's and 88's on were fuel injected, the rest of the early 80's were carbed, and does not work well with turbos. The motors do not have any potential to amount to anything. Air suspension and power do not mix. The ugly ass sleep idea has been played out, even if you are fast you will ultimatly be laughed at becasue your car will look like shit. Any chance at shooting anywhere near that power range with that spending limit you would have to have a swap, but b16's and b18's are are cheep and redaly available. For five grand you could buy the car, do a swap, and have a mild turbo setup (around 7-9psi) running on factory hardware. This would yield you between 180-220hp more than likely. But your car will still be slow because to get the desired effect your wanting your not going to be able to use high performance tires and your going to have to have a fairly free slowing exhaust for the turbo setup. Sleepers and turbos usually dont go hand in hand because when a turbo car pulls up you can normally tell its turboed because of the unique sounds it makes.

Ultimatly you can have a nice car and not be "rice", just go ahead and get something and make it look decent, do you really want to have a spray painted car with flames?

[beef_bourito]

Yes i do want spray painted flames, you wouldn't understand, you don't know my friends, it's kind of an inside joke.
Sorry, I meant 3-400hp at the crank because i was thinking of the crank horsepower for the engine when i was thinking of mods, What would that translate into when converted to at the wheels?

[TheSilentChamber]

Still more than your going to be able to shoot for realistically. Your going to loose about 30% of your power before it ever gets to the wheels. I dont know your friends, neither does anyone else. Like I said, if your wanting to be cool by having a fast car that is ugly then go for it, but your not going to accomplish your goal, at the end of the day your still going to get laughed at.

[beef_bourito]

so what kind of a goal should i be shooting for realistically, I would like to have a mild to big turbo that can run off pump gas and have a boost controller and then crank up the boost for the track. How much horsepower should I be expecting on pump gas with 10-14 PSI and other mods? How much should I be expecting to spend?

[CBFryman]

Go down tothe local junk yard and find you a Mid-late 90's wrecked Integra w/ a B18. the less miles the better. no front damage, but still totaled. yank that engine out of there and the tranny, cv jounts, etc.... take it home and bult you a NA crate motor. you can expect 200bhp maybe. what it cost to build a motor capable of handling 300-400hp boosted cost more than a few thousand dolars. there is great aftermarket for the B18. Get you some Higher compression pistons and a new crank, rods, you know the drill. New V-Tec cams, upgrade the fule injection system, and then maybe squeez some cash out for a stand alone ECU (around 1000-$1500). its going to take alot of work and end the end you will end up spending more than 5k. probably into the 8,000 range but it will be over time. dont take this as a weekend project. and you better know how to fabricate motor mounts and all that good stuff because i doubt the old A series or w/e they had in late 80's civics are motor mount compatable. but im not a honda expert so i dont know. then you can slap some VTec stickers on the side and surprise the shit out of somebody when your 1800lb '88 NA civic beats them.

[-Jayson-]

sounds like a dumb idea. And it sounds like you havent a clue as what you want to get yourself into.

[TheSilentChamber]

Originally Posted by CBFryman

Go down tothe local junk yard and find you a Mid-late 90's wrecked Integra w/ a B18. the less miles the better. no front damage, but still totaled. yank that engine out of there and the tranny, cv jounts, etc.... take it home and bult you a NA crate motor. you can expect 200bhp maybe. what it cost to build a motor capable of handling 300-400hp boosted cost more than a few thousand dolars. there is great aftermarket for the B18. Get you some Higher compression pistons and a new crank, rods, you know the drill. New V-Tec cams, upgrade the fule injection system, and then maybe squeez some cash out for a stand alone ECU (around 1000-$1500). its going to take alot of work and end the end you will end up spending more than 5k. probably into the 8,000 range but it will be over time. dont take this as a weekend project. and you better know how to fabricate motor mounts and all that good stuff because i doubt the old A series or w/e they had in late 80's civics are motor mount compatable. but im not a honda expert so i dont know. then you can slap some VTec stickers on the side and surprise the shit out of somebody when your 1800lb '88 NA civic beats them.

We are all now less inteligent for reading that post.

[Reed]

if your going to buy internals you might as well go turbo. dont expext to beat anyone without getting new internals. stip the entire interior down (sounds liek you dont care if your car is complete garbage.

I never understood pouring money into a junk car. 8K sounds expensive for an inside joke.

[Schister66]

To get a Civic to have 300-400whp is really not that hard. You should get a GSR engine and put a new bottom end in it, get it blueprinted and balanced, i would get it resleeved and then put a big 'ol turbo on it. I would get a T3/T04 60 series turbo and set it to push 18 psi. I would get an electronic boost controller to keep it under control when you want to. You would also have to get a Hondata system to manage the fuel. I would also get a larger fuel pump, injectors, fuel rail and all the little accesories. There are people that make over 400whp on a D16 engine, so pushing 300whp on a DOHC engine won't be that hard. I think that you could get a killer set up for under $10k for sure. You could easily do it for less though.

[duplox]

Get an 80s monte carlo. Throw a nicely built 350 in it, spray paint it all you want, grind some paint off the fenders so they rust through, beat the living hell out of it with a sledge. Put a decent trans behind it, a locker rear end, some decent tires(don't have to be huge), and some caltracs.. you should be able to get 300hp to the ground. Strip it as much as you want. Smash the driver's side back window and garbage bag it. That thing will look like the biggest redneck piece of shit ever. You could even rig up your muffler so it looks like its rusted off the exhaust and hangin by the hanger and run open headers. Loud, obnoxious, ugly as sin, cheap, and fast. Thats what you're goin for, right?

The same basic formula works for an 80s mustang, tbird, or camaro, or better yet, 74-78 mustang(if you can find one, I think anyone in their right mind sent theirs to the junkyard long ago). If you want dirt cheap power in an ugly ass car, you can't beat a mid 70s through 80s american pony car.
I wouldn't doubt you could get 300hp to the wheels in any of those cars for under $3500, including the car. Especially if you hit the swap meets and keep a keen eye on ebay. You can probably find any of those cars for under $1000 with the v8, decent transmission, and a decent rear end already in it. A few performance goodies on the engine(intake, headers, carb, cam) and you're on your way. Each of those mods can easily be done in a weekend. I could do all of those in a day no sweat, but I know my way around a motor. Even if the engine is in bad shape, you can buy a 350 block, 302 or 351w block for a hundred bucks, throw it on a $50 engine stand and rebuild it to make ~300-350hp for around $2500, more if you want to spend your full 5000.

[chevydrummer76]

after everything my 350 ran around 1,000....i'm right in the 300hp range. Its quick in a 3600 lbs truck, but in an old beater car it would be pretty damn fast.

[Schister66]

After re-reading your original post i found the part where you said you don't want to swap an engine into the car you buy, well then you have many options. You could get an Civic Hatch Si with the D16Z6 engine and that can make 300-400whp with some modification and a turbo. At www.turbod16.com there is a thread that lists the dyno numbers of the members's cars and there is a Z6 that has 418.6whp and 384 ft/lbs of torque. It is an SOHC engine which everyone says has no potential, but i beg to differ. I think that if you got an older Si hatch with the Z6, you could rebuild the bottom end, do a little head work and easily push 400+whp.

If you can't find an old Si, you could buy any 2 or 4 door Civic w/ the D16Y7 (non VTEC) or the Ex model w/ the D16Y8 (SOHC VTEC) and turbo that engine to push over 300whp. If you can find a car w/ the D16Y7 engine and you want to have VTEC, you could do a mini-me swap and put the Z6 head on the block that you have. You could also get the Y8 VTEC head and swap that if you can't find a Z6 head. There are tons of possibilities w/ a Civic. With the right turbo, fuel system, work on the bottom end and tuning, you could easily hit 300+whp.

I would check out www.turbod16.com and read up. They have all of the info you want. Also if you have any questions, feel free to PM me and i'll try my best to answer them.

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by chevydrummer76

after everything my 350 ran around 1,000....i'm right in the 300hp range. Its quick in a 3600 lbs truck, but in an old beater car it would be pretty damn fast.

Bet ya guzzle gas like a mofo too. tis why i like small little NA power houses or turbo motors.

[sunfire_starter]

this $5000 you could easily get 300 hp at the crank but the D16a engine that came in '89 Ef body Civic had a respectable 170hp but it is at 7800 Rpms! And it has a 10.4:1 compression so I think it is alittle high of a compression for turbo, but it can be done. for $5000 you could be close to 300hp at the crank. you would need to bring up the low end rpm range to get a good torque curve. With 300chp you would have 210whp @ 7800 rpms at 30% loss. I am doing a project car of a '95 Civic hatchback and with all the numbers I ran I got about 300whp without turbo and that is running the lowest number said that the proucts could make and it costing me about $5000. Not too shabby but all this will be done over a matter of a year so to get your car done in 5 days or less it just isn't going to happen unless you have a team of about 10 really fast people helping on the car. Then you have to think about brakes and suspension when your running alot more HP or it will be a fun time to try and stop going 110mph if your racing with that.