Opinions on performance chips?

[Kings-x59]

I keep finding myself drawn to performance chip adds on the web like a moth to light.
If you have installed one in your van, were you satisfied with the result?

My van is an '89 4.3L Z engine

[blazee]

A performance chip on a van?? Isn't that like putting wings on a turtle?

[Kings-x59]

Or lipstick on a pig perhaps.

[Mecha2]

Originally Posted by Kings-x59

I keep finding myself drawn to performance chip adds on the web like a moth to light.
If you have installed one in your van, were you satisfied with the result?

My van is an '89 4.3L Z engine

My advice is don't bother because you will burn more gas, you'll
also fail the emissions test. Most if not all chips require that you
change the thermostat to a cooler heat range. Which is bad for
the engine that is designed to run at 190 F instead of 170F.
All you are doing (by changing the chip) is fooling the computer
into running in open loop mode. The computer thinks the engine
is in startup mode, so it'll always run rich. Another gimmick would
be to replace the IAT sensor (your van probably doesn't have it)
with a resistor that would also fool the computer into thinking
the INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE is cold. Funny how people will
buy this resistor, which only costs pennies in reality, for upwards
of $30.00..

Your van has a 4.3L Z engine which is rated at around 160HP. Consider
swapping that with a 350 V8. You'll find details at www.astrosafari.com

Hope this helps.

[blazee]

Originally Posted by Mecha2

My advice is don't bother because you will burn more gas, you'll
also fail the emissions test. Most if not all chips require that you
change the thermostat to a cooler heat range. Which is bad for
the engine that is designed to run at 190 F instead of 170F.
All you are doing (by changing the chip) is fooling the computer
into running in open loop mode. The computer thinks the engine
is in startup mode, so it'll always run rich. Another gimmick would
be to replace the IAT sensor (your van probably doesn't have it)
with a resistor that would also fool the computer into thinking
the INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE is cold. Funny how people will
buy this resistor, which only costs pennies in reality, for upwards
of $30.00..

Your van has a 4.3L Z engine which is rated at around 160HP. Consider
swapping that with a 350 V8. You'll find details at www.astrosafari.com

Hope this helps.

Okay here we go:

You will not burn more gas. Fuel economy will remain basically the same, you may get a slight increase, but the program is designed to be used with 93 octane so any increase will be eaten up with the extra per gallon fuel cost.

The chip does not fool the computer into running in open loop. It does not make the engine run rich. It does adjust spark and fuel curves, when used with a 160 thermostat (the most recommended by chip manufacturers) it will boost horsepower and performance, the programmer (chip) will set the PCM to go into closed loop at a lower temp. The engine will operate more efficiently at lower temps, because it will have a denser air/fuel mixture. (molecules contract when cool and expand when heated) With the denser mix, the engine gets more energy per volume in the cylinder.

The difference between closed and open loop:
When an engine starts up, it runs in "open loop". While in open loop the computer uses default settings to operate the engine. After the engine warms up to a set temperature, it switches to closed loop. While in closed loop the computer actively controls all aspects of the engine to provide optimal performance.

You should never use a lower thermostat without reprogrammimg the PCM, because the computer will never go into closed loop. This will make your fuel economy and performance suffer.

I researched these issues quite a bit when I put I JET performance module in my Impala SS, ultimately I decided against the 160 thermostat for several reasons.

The lower temperature thermostats can actually double engine wear:

1. Today's engines operate at high temperatures to fight combustion by-products and pollution. Lowering the temp below 175-180 won't accomplish this.

2. Engine oils are designed to work over a specific temperature range with optimum performance starting at temperatures that require the coolant to be the very same 175ish range.

3.Your engine forms moisture inside when it cools and condensates on the walls of the inside. This moisture then is washed down into the oil when started and then awaits vaporization by internal temperatures rising enough to bring the moisture to the appropriate corrected vapor point (boiling). If enough moisture is left behind it combines with combustion byproducts to form acids that become dissolved in the oil itself. The oil becomes more acidic as the age of the oil progresses and picks on certain parts eventually. Also moisture will corrode other surfaces. So, it's important to get these engines to a satisfying operating temperature as soon as possible. Usually oil pooling temps are about 30 to 40 degrees higher than the coolant temps. This is a generalised statement and can vary with load and engine design but you can see why you want your oil over 212 degrees to boil out the moiture immediately!

[Kings-x59]

Thanks for the input Blazee.
I was considering the Jet stage I chip to be used with the stock thermostat. The info on the chip said that at least a mid grade gas had to be used for optimum performance. With gas prices constantly jacking up, this gave me pause.
I'm only looking to pick up a few extra HP and bit more torque. There are certainly other minor mods I can do to accomplish this.
The extra info regarding the thermostat temp rating is really appreciated.

I'm in a high heat and very high humidity location, and drive a lot of stop and go traffic. Mufflers don't last long down here (unless they are stainless steel).
I hadn't ever thought about the boil-off of condensation from the oil. Been considering an engine oil cooler. I think I'll do some research on thermostatic control for the oil cooler. Don't want the oil to get too hot, but now I know I don't want it to get too cool either.

Again, thanks very much for the input.

[Mecha2]

Originally Posted by blazee

Okay here we go:

You will not burn more gas. Fuel economy will remain basically the same, you may get a slight increase, but the program is designed to be used with 93 octane so any increase will be eaten up with the extra per gallon fuel cost.

The chip does not fool the computer into running in open loop. It does not make the engine run rich. It does adjust spark and fuel curves, when used with a 160 thermostat (the most recommended by chip manufacturers) it will boost horsepower and performance, the programmer (chip) will set the PCM to go into closed loop at a lower temp. The engine will operate more efficiently at lower temps, because it will have a denser air/fuel mixture. (molecules contract when cool and expand when heated) With the denser mix, the engine gets more energy per volume in the cylinder.

The difference between closed and open loop:
When an engine starts up, it runs in "open loop". While in open loop the computer uses default settings to operate the engine. After the engine warms up to a set temperature, it switches to closed loop. While in closed loop the computer actively controls all aspects of the engine to provide optimal performance.

You should never use a lower thermostat without reprogrammimg the PCM, because the computer will never go into closed loop. This will make your fuel economy and performance suffer.

I researched these issues quite a bit when I put I JET performance module in my Impala SS, ultimately I decided against the 160 thermostat for several reasons.

The lower temperature thermostats can actually double engine wear:

1. Today's engines operate at high temperatures to fight combustion by-products and pollution. Lowering the temp below 175-180 won't accomplish this.

2. Engine oils are designed to work over a specific temperature range with optimum performance starting at temperatures that require the coolant to be the very same 175ish range.

3.Your engine forms moisture inside when it cools and condensates on the walls of the inside. This moisture then is washed down into the oil when started and then awaits vaporization by internal temperatures rising enough to bring the moisture to the appropriate corrected vapor point (boiling). If enough moisture is left behind it combines with combustion byproducts to form acids that become dissolved in the oil itself. The oil becomes more acidic as the age of the oil progresses and picks on certain parts eventually. Also moisture will corrode other surfaces. So, it's important to get these engines to a satisfying operating temperature as soon as possible. Usually oil pooling temps are about 30 to 40 degrees higher than the coolant temps. This is a generalised statement and can vary with load and engine design but you can see why you want your oil over 212 degrees to boil out the moiture immediately!

Thank you for the info. The trade off in engine longevity
can't be ignored. I have always believed that performance improvements
can be had with the tried and true methods of improving engine
breathing. For example - exhaust headers, low restriction muffler,
dual exhaust conversion, hi-flow air filters and cold ram air intakes,
aftermarket ignition coils and wires, polish and port the exhaust and
aftermarket intake manifolds,etc.. Chip mods and camshaft changes
will affect the durability of your engine.