More Bang for the Buck!

[Schister66]

Hey everyone, i've been looking to do a swap in my 97 Civic EX coupe. I have been looking around and considering different options for the engine i want to swap. I want some input...what is better for the money

1. B18C1 full swap kit, then build up and probably turbo
2. B16 SiR2 full swap then build up and probably turbo

The B18 is around $3000 delivered to my house w/ 180 hp
The B16 is around $2000 delivered to my house w/ 170 hp

What has more possibility?
Remember that whatever engine you pick, i will have to tear it down and build it from the ground up using new(er) JDM parts...keep that in mind for the $$.

[CivicSpoon]

I'd say the GSR. You'll have more torque to start out with. But I'd also say skip the JDM one and get the USDM engine. You should be able to find it cheaper than the JDM one; even though it has 170hp the same as the jdm b16a. But since you're going to take it apart and rebuild it anyways, you might as well go for the cheaper one.

[Schister66]

All i'm basically looking for is the cheapest engine with the cheapest parts, that still can make the most power...if that's possible.

I think that the B16 and the B18 have about the same possibility for making power N/A or w/ forced induction, so IDK what i should do. There are a lot of variables involved. I was told by a guy that works at a local shop that the GSR swap is too expensive and for around $2000 less (that's price including install) that i could have the same engine he has in his hatch...a B16 SiR2. That is what i was told and i wanted to know what everyone else thinks.

[CivicSpoon]

I don't know about $2,000 less. I've seen places sell the GSR engine for about a grand more than the B16a. And installation shouldn't cost too much more, if more at all. The only difference in the actual swap is that you'd need to do a little more wiring; for the EVAP and IAB.

[Schister66]

I am doing the install myself so you don't need to worry about that part of the cost. For the GSR iw ould need to get a converter since my 97 Civic is OBD2 and the GSR would be OBD1. Stuff like that is what is going to make the GSR swap more expensive, and for what?? 10 horsepower is not hard to find in a stock engine. If i buy this, i am going to strip everything off and sell all the parts like the manifolds and the airbox and the stock heads and all that good stuff. Then when i'm rebuilding it, i would have to go get new better parts for it. The more i think about it, the less and less i want to do this swap because if i just sell my Civic and save the money i would spend on a swap, i could get a pretty nice car...like an SRT4 or something.

[Greenblurr93]

oh... u never told us the engine would be older than the car... thats not legal in most states (if not all of them), id try to find an engine newer than your car if i were you.

[CivicSpoon]

Yeah you're going to have to do some more wiring (not a ton more) if you're putting the OBD1 engine into an OBD2 car. And you'll need an OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness to plug in your OBD1 ECU into the harness, something like this: http://www.boomslang.us/obd2.htm

[95whitehb]

i'd go w/tha GSR- though i'm partial ... if emmisions is not a prob. go w/JDM not USDM!

[Schister66]

The only problem with the GSR is that there is a lot more wiring and the engine costs more right off the bat. I could probably save a lot of money by getting the B16 rather than the B18 and just bore and resleeve the B16 and ( i haven't figured this) probably get 1.8 liters. Is the B18 a longer stroke or a bigger bore than the B16...the heads are interchangeable aren't they? If so then the block has to be close to the same so the cylinders have enough space between them so i could safely bore them unless there are oil galleries and coolant passages that i don't know about.

[95whitehb]

the heads are interchangeable i believe- both are b-series - tht would be pretty tite to have a bored out b16 to 1.8L! i'd say go 4 tht, be dif.

[Schister66]

Boring out the B16, if possible, would make the B16 a B18 and save me money since i would have to probably resleeve any engine i get anyway.

[turboEKhatch]

Originally Posted by Schister66

Boring out the B16, if possible, would make the B16 a B18 and save me money since i would have to probably resleeve any engine i get anyway.

Unless you plan on taking that B16 out to a slightly unrealistic 87mm bore it's not going to be the same size as a B18. An 84MM B16 is just barely over 1700 CC's.

My advice? Stock LS motor + T3/TO4E 57 trim + good tuning. Cheaper than a GSR or a B16, and just as much fun. I'd skip the sleeving unless you have aspirations for constant 500+ WHP. Lots of people at the track here pushing 400+ WHP and beating on their motors hard with stock sleeves. I have NEVER seen a stock B18 or B16 sleeve cracked by sheer power. The only cracked sleeves I've seen are the people trying to push 20 psi on a drag kit with stock injectors, a FMU, pump gas, and no timing retard. Detonation = cracked sleeve.

[Schister66]

Originally Posted by turboEKhatch

Unless you plan on taking that B16 out to a slightly unrealistic 87mm bore it's not going to be the same size as a B18. An 84MM B16 is just barely over 1700 CC's.

My advice? Stock LS motor + T3/TO4E 57 trim + good tuning. Cheaper than a GSR or a B16, and just as much fun. I'd skip the sleeving unless you have aspirations for constant 500+ WHP. Lots of people at the track here pushing 400+ WHP and beating on their motors hard with stock sleeves. I have NEVER seen a stock B18 or B16 sleeve cracked by sheer power. The only cracked sleeves I've seen are the people trying to push 20 psi on a drag kit with stock injectors, a FMU, pump gas, and no timing retard. Detonation = cracked sleeve.

You think an LS motor or an LS/VTEC motor? I personally would want the LS/VTEC, but i really don't know the pros and cons of that. I know where i can get an LS motor right here in town too. It would be cheap and the turbo would be fairly cheap. All of it should cost less than $2000, but still i can't justify spending that right now. Unless something changes, i'm stuck w/ my D16, but you just gave me another option to work w/ in the future...thanks.

[turboEKhatch]

Originally Posted by Schister66

You think an LS motor or an LS/VTEC motor? I personally would want the LS/VTEC, but i really don't know the pros and cons of that. I know where i can get an LS motor right here in town too. It would be cheap and the turbo would be fairly cheap. All of it should cost less than $2000, but still i can't justify spending that right now. Unless something changes, i'm stuck w/ my D16, but you just gave me another option to work w/ in the future...thanks.

I'm talking about a straight LS setup to start with, and you can upgrade with a VTEC head or whatever later on. I made just over 300 WHP on a stock LS motor (only thing I did internally was ARP rod bolts and head studs, because the rod bolts are like putty on the LS) with a 57 trim and Hondata. Picked the LS up in a junkyard for about 600 bucks complete.

[95whitehb]

it seems like you really want a b18... why don't you just wait untill u have tha money?? otherwise u might always wish u got one thing...
????