1986 GASE v6 3.0L -- starting problems

[Cerafina]

Ive been reading here and alot of people seem to have similar problems as mine, but not exactly the same so I thought I would come to you guys with it.

We purchased this car 2 days ago from a dealer, we know the car runs because someone had purchased it prior and returned it after finding out they would have to do an out of province registration on it and didnt want the extra expense... the dealer went out and started it several times the day we were to pick it up and it started fine. The final time he started it, he let it run and it ran out of gas, he refilled it and it started fine again, however, when my husband went to pick it up, it would not start, so we towed it home and put it in the garage.

So heres where our problem starts:

Got it home, its was literally -50 C with the winds, so the battery and engine froze... fair enuf we got it warmed up so that the oil didnt run like molasses and the rest of the fluids were good, replaced the battery - because I was informed a frozen battery is pretty much shot (yeah Im still learning), tried to start the car.... no go, theres enuf juice somewhere to light up all the idiot lights but not to turn the car over.

My husband believes it might be the alternator is shot or that it needs a new battery (we just switched out the old one for the one that was in our mazda). He is taking the alternator in to get checked this afternoon, but we were wondering if it could be something else.

Any ideas? The check engine soon light is on, however the car isnt driveable and I cant pay for the tow right now to get it checked, so your guesses are as good as mine....

[Ridenour]

Well if it wouldn't start period - I would've said maybe your gas was froze (try dry gas mix) but you said you got it going, so I'd say to try the following:

Wires (if some water got into a crack in one of the sleeves and froze, it might've severed the wire)

Spark plugs (pull em & clean em or replace)

Coil packs (have em tested)

Before you put the new battery in, pull off the grounds and clean em.

Maybe a new starter?

[Slade901]

During cranking, the battery must provide all power to turn over the engine (you can have a bad alternator and the engine would still turn over and all power are running from the battery). When engine is running, the alternator helps the battery by recharging it. During initial startup, the alternator is not needed.

I would invest in a portable 12vdc output and 110vac input battery/charger $50. It is very helpful to diagnose and recharge drained battery. Recharging a dead battery takes about at least 3 hours or so.

A lot of times when the vehicle is run out of gas, the fuel pump overheats and its fuel pump filter gets clogged. However, fill about 3 gallons of fuel and pour some water remover (ISO-HEET) in the gas tank.

[Cerafina]

Thanks for the input guys and so quickly, Im thouroughly impressed so here is where we are now:

Battery: new = good, the old one was good too had it tested and it was on a charger for 2 days

Starter: has been pulled out and tested = good as well

Alternator: Unsure at the moment its coming out and being replaced next

Wires and spark plugs are good as far as I know, but that will be the next step I think

The car wants to fire, you can hear it click when you turn it over, but nothing else atm...

any other suggestions would be great

[Slade901]

Let me get this straight.

Does the engine turns over when you tried crank it but the engine just spins and spins and would not keep running on its own when you release the ignition switch?

OR

Does the engine does not turn over when you tried to crank it and all you hear is either a click or nothing at all?

If the engine at least spins when you try to crank it then the next thing to check is for sparks. Just get an adjustable spark tester and just remove one spark plug wires from one spark plug and then put that spark tester on the end of the spark plug and clip it on a ground. Crank the engine and see if you have sparks. If you have no sparks, check for the fuses first. Next check the CKPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor). If the CKPS is not working or its wires is grounding or disconnected then the CKPS can't provide reference signal to the ECM and so ECM can't tell the ICM when to fire the ignition coils.

If you got sparks, the problem is fuel related. Get a fuel pressure tester to check for fuel pressure. The quick way to test a vehicle for fuel issue is to try remove the intake hoses and spray some starting fluid into the throttle body and start the vehicle. The vehicle should start on its own for a few seconds because of that starting fluid.

Check the fuel pump relay and fuel pump fuse to make sure they are good.

[Cerafina]

Originally Posted by Slade901

Does the engine does not turn over when you tried to crank it and all you hear is either a click or nothing at all?

this is the problem and now that its boiled down to that simple phrase, its starting to sound exactly like an ecm issue which is what we have with our Mazda... I could be wrong, but thats what Im starting to think

is there anything else that could cause this to happen, I admit Im not mechanically inclined, but hey there is no such thing as a stupid question (imho)

[Slade901]

Could be ignition switch or just barely connected wire (loose).
The engine should turn over regardless if the ECM is connected or not. The starter is directly connected to the battery via the ignition switch.

I would get a remote starter from autoparts store. It compose of a two wire with clips on both ends and a push button in the middle of the wire. You connect one clip on the starter and the other end on the battery + terminal. You can manually turn over the engine that way to eliminate and narrow down the problem.

Try putting the transmission in Neutral (parking brake engaged) and try starting the engine.

[Cerafina]

thank so much slade your help is a godsend right now... ignition switch is good...

we spoke with the mechanic from the dealership where we purchased the car he has advised us to look at the fuses, apparently this is not the first time that this has happened with one of their cars, they apparently did the same thing to a benz... *rolls eyes*

anyway the mechanic let us know that all it took was changing a few fuses in the panel.. which leads me to my next question....

Where is the bloody fuse panel in this car? we've looked and cant seem to find it, unless we've been looking at it all along and just didnt know what the heck it was lol

[grfnkl]

The fuse panel is on the driver side under the dash, it has a fuse panel door, just turn the wing nut looking tab and the door will come down and there are your fuses,

[Cerafina]

A round of applause to the gentlemen that helped me with the beasty (my pet name for the car :P)

you will be pleased to know that it was nothing more than a loose wire either connected to the starter or the alternator.. (I know I was). We put the beasty back together tonight and she fired like a dream

Thanks so much for all your input guys, I dunno what I would have done without all of you other than mope and whine (hehe just like a chick)