1996 3.8 intake manifold runner control stuck open

[beuthling]

P1537- intake manifold runner control stuck open. Can this in any way hurt my van-(make it run to lean to rich) can I fix It by running a can of carb medic thru the intake.

[wiswind]

The default position of the intake manifold runners is OPEN. They are open when the car is not running. When you start the car, vacuum is applied to the actuators, and they close.
Above a certain RPM they open.
There are 2 of them. One for the front bank of cylinders, and one for the rear bank of cylinders.

With the car OFF, you can try to move each one....and see if it moves.

The actuators can go bad. On my '96, the actuators get their vaccum source through red lines that connect to the top of each actuator.

Here is a link to some pictures of my '96....that may help you to locate the actuators...as well as a few other things. You can click on "view full size" to blow the pictures up to see more detail.

http://community.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK

[JenCel]

I have the same code from autozone's scanner. I know where the runner bank is located but am not sure what the actuators are or what they do or if I can fix the problem. Any help is quite appreciated. My engine is running too rich right now as well, although it may be an oxygen sensor, although the code didn't come up. After cleaning my IAC valve the smell has been cut in half. Could this runner stuck open be the problem with my high CO levels? Everything else is within normal. Thanks in advnace,

Jennifer

[wiswind]

There are 2 actuators.....1 for the front bank....and the other for the rear bank.
The actuators are made up of 2 parts. One is the vaccum "diaphram"....which, when vaccum is applied...CLOSES the runner. If the runner is showing that it is stuck open....you will want to verify that the vaccum is getting to the actuator.....(which it will be at IDLE).

The other part is a electrical resistance which will indicate if the runner is OPEN....or CLOSED. If the actuator pulls the runner part way closed.....then you might be able to clear the problem up by cleaning / lubricating the linkage. You can see that there are stops.....that a flange on the end of the runner shaft (right where it goes into the lower intake manifold) will move from stop to stop. If it hangs up.....you will need to make sure that it can move freely from stop to stop. Crud can also build up on the plates inside the lower intake manifold....preventing full motion of the runner. It is not uncommon for the actuator to go bad. And they are a little pricey.....which is why I am suggesting that you make sure that the mechanism can move freely from stop to stop.

With the engine OFF......the runners will be OPEN......and should be against the fully open stop.

With the engine at idle.....the runners will be CLOSED.....and should be fully against the fully closed stop.

If BOTH of the above conditions are not true....then you will need to correct the problem.
If they are not both against the fully closed stop at idle....you might CAREFULLY (As you are next to the drive belt) try to gently help it along.

Refer to the pictures in the link that I posted above......and...hopefully my ramblings make some sense.

[JenCel]

I understand what you are saying, thanks and well I will ask someone a little more brave than I to put his hand in there and try to un stick it, lol.

[bittmann]

The van idles *really* lousy, too, doesn't it?

IIRC, the intake manifold runner controls are fairly expensive ($200-range), but they are fairly straightforward to troubleshoot. When you finally find someone who's willing to stick their hand in there , they will quickly be able to tell if the vacuum servo's diaphragm is bad if they simply draw a vacuum on each of the two vacuum ports using a piece of small-diameter vacuum line, and see if each unit toggles the intake manifold runner. If both manifold runner controls toggle, then you likely have a vacuum leak somewhere upstream. If one of the units doesn't toggle (which is more likely), then you probably have a bad Intake Manifold Runner Control (or possibly a "stuck" runner control shaft, but that's doubtful). Regardless, it'll be pretty obvious.

Heck: Another option...have someone watch the IMRCs while you start the engine. If one servos closed but the other one just sits there, you've probably just IDd where you want to concentrate your attention.

One thing about those controls: They don't even open until the engine is turning over ?2,900-3000? RPM (IIRC...may be as high as 4,000 RPM?). If you rarely (if ever) zoom past 3500 RPM, you could as a temporary fix, wire the darned things closed...your idle will be much better, it'll drive "just fine", but as a tradeoff, won't have as much "zip" at the top end.

[danthedsm]

I had this same problem. The way to tell what the problem is to pull off the vacuum hoses. Have someone start the car while you put your fingers over the ends of the hoses. if you start feel the vacuum you know its not a vacuum or electrical problem.

In my case I felt the vacuum so I figured the actuators were bad. Now you take a screwdriver and press down on the linkage if they move easily you know it’s the actuators that are bad. Only one of mine was bad but both fail to operate I guess because they run together in vacuum system.

Now to tell witch on if not both are bad with the vacuum hose off push down the linkage to fully closed put your finger over the vacuum inlet and let off the screwdriver if it stays closed you know it works properly if it opens again you know there a leak in the actuator diahphram.

[lidation]

Originally Posted by bittmann

One thing about those controls: They don't even open until the engine is turning over ?2,900-3000? RPM (IIRC...may be as high as 4,000 RPM?). If you rarely (if ever) zoom past 3500 RPM, you could as a temporary fix, wire the darned things closed...your idle will be much better, it'll drive "just fine", but as a tradeoff, won't have as much "zip" at the top end.

OK. I am having this P1537/P1538 issue on my '98 Windstar w/ 81K miles. Following Bittmann's advice, I wire the two IMRC valves closed. Now the CEL is gone and I have driven the car a few hundred miles and it seems fine. I have NEVER exceeded 3000 RPM on this V6 3.8L engine so I guess it's fine.

I hope there is no side effects. Any comments?

[Headbolt]

Originally Posted by bittmann

IIRC, the intake manifold runner controls are fairly expensive ($200-range),

These units are listed on E-Bay for $60 for the RH & $55 for the LH. Says they fit '96 thru '98 models. What happened in '99? Just curious as mine don't seem to be having a problem, but would like to be in the know if the situation comes up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RS-IN...spagenameZWDVW

[busboy4]

Originally Posted by Headbolt

These units are listed on E-Bay for $60 for the RH & $55 for the LH. Says they fit '96 thru '98 models. What happened in '99? Just curious as mine don't seem to be having a problem, but would like to be in the know if the situation comes up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RS-IN...spagenameZWDVW

in '99 Ford wisely went to electrical actuators for the IMRC's.

As to the ones on Ebay: judging by the picture they appear identical to the Dorman valves that rockauto was selling. At least two of us have bought these from rockauto only to find out they did not work with our vans (mine is a '96). They worked properly from a vacuum standpoint, but did not send proper position information to the PCM resulting in continued "IMRC stuck open" codes. I returned mine to rockauto and have been living without. I wired closed the IMRC, and I have the old valve plugged in with the actuator wire-tied in the closed position to keep the light off.

[Mac2002]

I have a 2000 Windstar with the electronic actuators and am wondering if the open with engine off, closed with engine on scenario is still true. Mine don't move when the engine starts but seem to want to.

Thanx

[busboy4]

Originally Posted by Mac2002

I have a 2000 Windstar with the electronic actuators and am wondering if the open with engine off, closed with engine on scenario is still true. Mine don't move when the engine starts but seem to want to.

Thanx

My experience (limited) with the '99 and '00's is that the actuator stays "fixed" under normal ops, i.e. closed regardless of engine running or not. With your engine running, if you grab the throttle and push it toward full open quickly and let go - rev it, you should see the IMRC's move briefly toward open, and then closed again. In the life of your van, those two actuators should likely not move much unless you routinely floor it.

[tacomabobd]

Just as a heads up on Ford Dealerships. I have a 96 Windstar. I had both 1537 and 1538 codes. I found the best price for them at NAPA, $104.00 each. I found out that Ford sold them for $162.00. The codes cleared and I still had two other codes that lead me to believe I had a vacuum leak. I took it to a Ford dealership and they found the problem. Two days after I got the car back my 1537 and 1538 codes came back. I took it back to Ford and told them that both IMRC's were only 3 weeks old. They did some extensive testing and told me that both of the IMRC's were bad. I told them to go ahead and replace them and that I wanted the parts back. They charged me $966.00 for the repair!!!!! When I went to pay the bill, I noticed that they charged me $ 268.00 each for the IMRC's. I mentioned that that was a rip off since I could get the parts from another dealership at a better price. They said they could remove the parts and I could go there. When I got home I called the manager of the dealership and told him what I thought of the rip off. He had me contact the parts manager. I told the parts manager and he said he would honor the other dealerships price. When I went in to get reimbursed for the difference, he mentioned that the price I found was probably an internet price. when i got home I called the other dealership that said the part was $162.00 on line. I talked to a parts person and he said that the part was $268.00. So the online price was a better deal. If you can't replace the parts yourself, I would order the parts online and take them to someone that can. P.S. I did get my money back from NAPA too.

[mackjazz]

This is great info. Thanks. I wonder if anyone can help me with a slightly different senario? My 3.8 96' has the CEL on and the code came up 1538. The mechanic (non Ford) told me it meant IMRC Bank 1 was bad. Ford however says they don't go by bank 1 or 2 but that I needed to know if it was the IMRC nearest the radiator or the one nearest the firewall (firewall side part number F65Z9S514DA) or the radiator side ( number F65Z9S514CC). Does anyone know which one that would be for Bank 1? I looked at wiswind's photos but didn't find any identification for the individual IMRCs. Photos where great however!!

Also I followed the advice above and discovered that with the engine OFF or ON at IDLE both IMRCs remain open and do not close. I have tested and checked the actuator arms and butterflies. They are all lubed and work easily. Taking the vaccum lines off (they are 2 white tubes that come from a Y vaccum line) I don't feel hardly any vacume and next to the front IMRC is the red vaccum line going to the fuel pressure regulator and it has great vaccum. The question.... are the IMRC vaccum lines vaccum source, controlled by the electrical IMRC plugs or by an independent other source? Because I am wondering if I have a vaccum leak (I can't see where the vaccum lines go as they disappear behind the rear injector/maniford) which could be why neither IMRC units close at idle. Or is the vaccum controlled by the IMRC electrical inputs and thus the IMRC's are both bad? I did do the test where you attach a vaccum line to each IMRC and suck and they both close easily.

I almost went and replaced the one for $268.00 but now not sure if that will fix my CEL code. Any suggestions or advice as to the solution and more troubleshooting is greatly appreciated. In the intermin I may wired them closed as suggested but ultimately I want to fix them correctly.

Thanks for your help.
Mack
[email protected]

[12Ounce]

... someone has already posted on this forum (long ago) which part number went where. I don't remember much more. Perhaps the poster is still with us. ??

My guess would be that the one closest to the radiator reaches back and actuates Bank #1.