Do Prothane inserts "pop" in?

[Gsx_hooptie]

I pulled out my front motor mount and tried inserting the prothane motor mount inserts; they fit, but don't really stick, and never poped in or felt like they got seated right.

After trying to attach them by hand (and failing) I used two 4" vices, and still couldn't get the inserts seated. I also tried coating the pieces with lubricant.

My question is whether the inserts are supposed to fit in the mount snug, and how. Or, are you just supposed to put them on either side of the mount, attach it back to the frame and hope the through-bolt does the trick?



I just threw up my first sig, too, so in case it doesn't work, this is a 2g awd auto.

Thanks

[CBURKE]

yes

[kjewer1]

Nice! Info about the car in the sig! And a backup in the post... You remind me that there is still hope for this world...

Yeah, just let the bolt etc hold it together. They wont snap in or anything else, they just fill the gaps and thats about it. After a couple years though mine tend to stay in now when I disassemble the mounts.

[Gsx_hooptie]

I'm replying back to this post to give a run-down of what happened, and how to. This is what I did, and it worked, feel free to follow this or tell me if I messed something up/something's hopelessly unclear.

Resourses: http://www.turbo4wd.com/Mounts/MotorMounts.htm
http://www.raktron.com/misc/mt.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...light=prothane
The Haynes manual wasn't much for instruction, fyi.


Also, everying I repair on my car is a special experience since it's been in a head-on. The guy who "repaired" it was none too bright. Interesting wires that lead nowhere are everywhere, and stuff is so compacted under the hood that my turbo damn near contacts the radiator fans. It's a hooptie.
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Kevin was right that taking of the front motor mount (manual calls it a roll stopper) is a snap. I sandwiched the mount between the inserts and reattached in 10 minutes... minus the two hours with vices trying to get the inserts to snap in... ahem... they don't do that.


The rear mount is a bitch. Seriously. I'm not an experienced mechanic, but every part of the job sucks. Take out the battery, the battery mount, and get some good lighting. The first part was the hardest for me: The bolt that goes through the mount and secures it to the bracket is 14mm, with a 14mm nut. I leaned over the passenger side with a torque wrench on the nut and a long 14mm open-end on the bolt (bolt is on driver's side, nut on passsanger side of mount). Three bolts then hold the mount to the frame. All three are accessed topside, or they were for me, although the rre writeup says otherwise. There's one bolt on the passanger side of the mount- you can reach in the jungle of wires and get it off with a 6" extension banging your hand against shit- or use a 20" and work comfortably(20"+ will clear the intake). THe other two bolts are driver's side of the mount, and you Need a 20"+ extension, I can't imagine getting them off with anything less.


Now the mount is free, or so you thought. Take the two bolts that connect the fuel filter to the firewall off, the fuel filter is now only connected by a fuel line underneath, and can be maneuvered out of the way (if you're thinking of removing the fuel filter, depressurize the system, or don't. I realized after doing the job that this would be a good time to change out the filter if you're behind on maintance). With the wide-ass base of the mount (measures 3 and 1/2" x 5" @ 4" height), you have to fight your way between the fuel filter on the left, the mount brackets toward the front, a metal line (fuel, oil?) to the right, and the firewall behind. I couldn't get it- but my girlfriend did. Ouch. Smaller hands, that's what I keep telling myself, just because she has smaller hands. Anyway, rotate the mount on the axis of the through-bolt and nut assembly earlier disassembled and pull it up through obsticles, bottom first. In case the direction of rotation wasn't clear, facing the rear of the car from front, you rotate/swivel the mount through the z-axis, back to front.


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I did all this to attach the prothane motor mount inserts I had bought, which is the only reason I can imagine anyone going through the trouble to get at the mounts. The pisser is that the inserts don't in any way, shape, or form, fit the mount. The word "insert" implies one thing going in another- not with these inserts- there's honestly not any overlap between the gaps in the mount and the protrusions designed in the inserts. In other words, the little boy part of the insert doesn't make its way into the little girl part of the mount, at all. They fit as well backwards as they do forwards, and there's no way the inserts will fit with the mount back in the bracket the long bolt (through bolt) travels through.

All that work for this? I'd say the waste of money makes me mad, but I guess I'm not a true DSMer since the embarassingly long amount of time I had to spend doing this is what really pisses me off.

Now I'm thinking about the liquid urethane idea, since its better than nothing, and I already have the mount out. I don't care if filling the mount makes it look like hell. It's under the car anyway.

Maybe all this was to vent, but the only question I really have is, how the hell are the inserts supposed to fit?


P.S. I wish I had a digital to show the gayness of this mount and insert stuff.

[FourG63 97GST]

the rear insert is tricky, took me awhile also.

then I saw it done in 5 minutes from down below

[1stGenRocks]

"smaller hands" lol. Yea it probably would be easier to get from below. Just do the mounts one at a time. Liquid urethane will work do it in thin layers and let them dry completly. Expect it to take a couple days to fill the whole insert.

Another option is to cut up a plastic cutting board into the right shape and put the pieces in there. Then fill the rest of it with liquid urethane.

[kjewer1]

What an awesome write up. Clever. Well written. Funny. Two thumbs up, nominated for best post of the year award. Thanks for the laugh

The rear insert should go in fine. There are some differences in years/models/something that I can't quite put my finger on. But I have had the same problem. Its most likely the wrong part if it doesnt fit. I would talk to the shop you got them from and see if you can find out what went wrong. I did a 6 bolt swap for someone, he got the inserts from a rice shop, and they defintely didnt fit. Ordered them from RRE (I think, it was a DSM specific vendor at any rate) and got the right parts. Same year, same car, same drivetrain. Go figure

Some tips for that POS rear mount. And this is a 2g thing, so you 1g guys can tune out. I'll list a couple observations I've made over the last 5 years.

- Getting rid of that bigass AC line that was was placed in a piss poor location makes the job much easier.

- Getting rid of cruise control helps as well. And the CC system sucks anyway, new non cruise cable is only ~30 bucks and works the balls.

- A ratcheting box end wrench (17mm) is the only way to get the 3 mount-to-tranny bolts out in a reasonable amount of time. It will change your life...

- Getting those same 3 bolts back into the tranny can be a bitch, they dont always want to line up with the holes. Adjusting the angle of rotation on the tranny will get things in line. But the POSR method is to ever so slightly enlarge those 3 holes in that mount. Makes a world of difference on reassembly.

- Keep the nut on that through bolt on the passenger side of that mount, makes it easier to get to. The firewall can hold the wrench from turning at the bolt head, if needed.

These little tidbits can make tranny removal/install much quicker and less frustrating. A clutch job on a virgin car takes me about 8 hours. A clutch job on my car takes less than 3.

And for what its worth, I've never seen a rear mount that didnt attach to the K member from above, 1g or 2g. Not sure where that came from. Perhaps there is some year/drivetrain configuration that I haven't dont that job on yet.

[96spyderman]

I too just got my prothane mounts.... I did the front one but not the rear...yet... The rear didn't have any cracks or worn looks to it so I left it for now.... the front had a nice tear on one side that went almost all the way through.....

ar
Nice pic huh?

Well anyways....I also noticed that the front "inserts" didn't have the same male shape as the female shape of the old mount....little slop right?
After sandwiching it in and bolted it up there is a difference in acceleration response and more vibration when stopped in drive...feels rather good!!! lol
I have thought of cutting out 1/8" rubber to put on the outside/ backside of inserts to help "wedge" them in....

[FourG63 97GST]

inserts work better in good mounts, not ripped/torn ones

[Gsx_hooptie]

Last post of mine on this thread, but I thought I'd add a couple tips about working with the 3M Window Weld. One of the links I posted earlier in this thread is a how-to on filling a motor mount. I hate how how-to's usually give you the best case scenario, without telling you what you what can go wrong. Let me help.

The stuff is 3M part number 8609, and the stuff no longer says "primerless," or at least mine didn't. It works the same. On that note, it works really well. The Kragen chain carries it (aka checkers?). One tube is enough for several mounts. Also, you need a caulk gun. Not even He-Man like strength will get that thick goop from the tube without the gun. I tried to use my 4" vices, but all that did was puncture the tube and splatter urethane all over my hands (Read: Carcinogenic). This shit doesn't come off, either. Water, soap, scrub brush, I still have some on my hands as I type this.

I saw the wal-mart cutting board idea on vfaq, but all I can do is shake my head. If you're too cheap for a 9$ tube of urethane, I don't know what to say. This is ghetto-rigging it enough.

Filling a mount, or putting inserts in, doesn't seem like it'd make much difference. It does. The car shifts smoothly, and the shifter has a more solid feel, with less slop. Most worthwhile and satisfying change I've made to the hoop ride. My mounts were bad enough that this mod reduced, rather than increased, the vibration inside the car.

On the downside, the engine used to ride against the busty mounts and sound like an Indy car at 3k. You could hear the car from a block away, and the badass sounding engine (vibrating off the frame of the car) had an intimidation factor with domestic cars on the freeway.

The vibration now sounds muted and in a lower octave. Shakes the rear view mirror enough to make you question if you've been drinking tonight. Livable.

[GotGrip666]

what did you gus use to lift the motor to put the inserts in, and do you notice a difference when driving

[kjewer1]

Use a jack underneath. But dont use the oil pan, jack it up by the tcase instead. If you have a FWD, use the oil pan but with extreme caution. Don't make me tell the story about I lost motor number 3 to a dented oil pan again... Use plenty of padding, and it will only go so high, don't lift the car with the jack. Actually that applies more to tbelt jobs than doing mounts, since you really just have to support the weight and keep it from dropping, as opposed to actually having to lift it. Yes.