Ford Warranty Denial for Regular Gas Use ?

[Borpe]

My Owner's Manual states that Premium gasoline is required for my Focus SVT. I've been using mid-grade 89. I think this avoids the higher cost of 91 premium, but also avoids the potential power loss of 87 regular. I'm completely happy with the performance of the car on 89. No knock and no hesitation.

I'm told by other Focus SVT owners that use of 89 gasoline invalidates Ford's Warranty. I'm told that use of 89 will lead to engine damage and that Ford tests incoming cars at their dealerships and specifically voids warranty coverage if the gasoline tests at less than 91.

I'm trying to find the truth. Does Ford invalidate the car's warranty if I use 89 mid-grade ? Articles I've found on the internet seem to agree that use of 89 gas does not invalidate a car's warranty - but I can't find a specific statement from Ford.

Can someone direct me to a website statement by Ford on this issue ? Something definitive by a representative of Ford ? (I don't need a restatement of the Owners' Manual).

[carr17]

As far as i know if Ford does not say in the owners manual or anywhere else on the car that the warranty would be void, the warranty will not be void. As long as the car doesn't lack in performance or show any signs or detenation(knocks and pings), i would continue using mid grade gasoline.

[Borpe]

Originally Posted by carr17

As far as i know if Ford does not say in the owners manual or anywhere else on the car that the warranty would be void, the warranty will not be void. As long as the car doesn't lack in performance or show any signs or detonation(knocks and pings), i would continue using mid grade gasoline.

Ford is coy about this. If you call, they will say that the warrantry is voided if mid-grade gas damages the engine. But that really doesn't answer the question of whether 89 mid-grade will damage the engine... The reason this came up of that more and more auto induatry experts say that engines are so well-controlled that very few of them really need premium. Even the engines stated in the Owners Manual to "need" premium really don't. See, for example, http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm

On the other hand, some people say that even though you can't hear knock or notice any damage, mid-grade gas causes subtle damage that doesn't show up for a while.

It would be useful to get a definitive answer on this...

[benchtest]

It would seem logical that any damage caused by fuel would not be under warranty. Ford has no control over what you put in, or what comes out of the pump. Proving the damage was caused by the fuel is another matter, but if it's proven, they will likely fight a warranty repair...AS THEY SHOULD. Your engine is tuned to run on higher octane fuel. The ECU will monitor the sensors to prevent damgae as best it can, but realize that knocking does damage, and the computer only adjusts for knock AFTER it happens. Even if it happens only for a second and the computer adjusts, it is not a permanent change in the program. It will try to move back to the original settings again. So, the cycle will repeat. It's comparable to bouncing off the guard-rail to stay on the road. You can probably avoid any damage by granny-driving the car with low octane fuel. But, you bought a performance vehicle. Why would you spend the extra cash to buy it and then throw cheap gas in it? That's penny-wise and dollar-foolish. It's your car, so do as you wish, just don't expect warranty to cover a repair if you can't follow the instructions that came with the car. Would you feel any different if you owned Ford?

[Borpe]

Originally Posted by benchtest

It would seem logical that any damage caused by fuel would not be under warranty. Ford has no control over what you put in, or what comes out of the pump. Proving the damage was caused by the fuel is another matter, but if it's proven, they will likely fight a warranty repair...AS THEY SHOULD. Your engine is tuned to run on higher octane fuel. The ECU will monitor the sensors to prevent damgae as best it can, but realize that knocking does damage, and the computer only adjusts for knock AFTER it happens. Even if it happens only for a second and the computer adjusts, it is not a permanent change in the program. It will try to move back to the original settings again. So, the cycle will repeat. It's comparable to bouncing off the guard-rail to stay on the road.

Thank you but you really don't know what you're talking about.

[Madcat455]

Originally Posted by Borpe

Thank you but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Actually... He hit the nail right on the head.

If you were to have engine problems (I understand that you're not, but if), and ford were to find that it was because of poor quality (low octane) gas (WHICH THEY CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE), that does give them grounds to not cover any repairs under warranty. Low octane gas in High compression cars can lead to detonation (which is not allways heard by the human ear), the Computer will sense the detonation & adjust to compesate for it, but it will allways try to revert back to its original progaramming when you start it up again, resulting it the motor detonating again to tell the comp. to adjust. Which over long term can (and probably will) damage the engine.

I don't own a "high Performance" ford (svt, sho, etc), but have built & drag raced numerous High performance engines, and can tell you from first hand experiance exactly what 5 octane points can mean to a engine running anything over 10.5:1 compression.

If you're in doubt about fords recommendation... hook up a compression gauge to your car... If you're running over 175psi then I'd use 92. Of course, that's just a basic guideline.. as Altitude, temp, bar. pressure, humidity, can all effect weather or not the engine will detonate.


But you're taking a risk, that Ford doesn't want you to. And if it burns you, they are saying that you will be on your own for it.

Really though... Why are you Bitching over a dime per gallon difference on a FOCUS... what's that thing get... 40mpg. Be glad you don't drive a big block..

[Borpe]

[quote=Madcat455]Actually... He hit the nail right on the head.

I don't want to get into a long discussion about ECUs. I'm well aware of how spark control operates. It's not how either of you describe it - as a continual resetting to dangerously advanced settings. These issues with this particular engine revolver around the relatively mild 10.2:1 CR and the modern combustion chamber design with short fuel flamefronts which tend to mitigate detonation. I'm aware of the real technical issues - not what some instant experts read in a comic book. Modern engines tend to be well-controlled and - in most cases, unless they are supercharged - do not have the sloppy variability and extreme CRs for which older designs alsolutely required premium octane. Most engines for which premium is "recommended" do just fine of regular or mid-grade. See for example the discussion in http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm. Even Porsche engines are designed to be safe on regular - even though they lose a small percentage of power . I'm asking for expert advice from people who actually know Ford's policy. I don't need any more shadetree mechanic commentary.

Sorry to be so blunt. I've rather tired of having to explain this to people who aren't up on the issue.

[yotermanic]

I'm a Ford Technician with a SVT specialty, so I know Ford's policies and tests for warranty eligbility and I also know their policies on what is and is not covered as well as what engine strategy is for inferior fuel. The short answer to your question is: yes. Using any fuel, or additive that is not recommended by Ford Motor Company will void your manufacturer's warranty. To them, it's the same as if you put gas in a diesel motor. We recommend what to use, what the vehicle is designed for, and if you don't use it and it causes a problem, it's your own deal. The longer answer is, who the hell will know? I've been in a dealership since I was eighteen and still have never even heard of Ford Motor Company asking us to test fuel octane, there's not even a labor time standard for it in Ford's manual. Secondly, your PCM is not going to let the engine destroy itself. I've worked on performance concerns on SVT Cobras where it ended up beint 87 octane in the tank. The PCM will automatically adjust mixture, spark and fuel timings if it sees detonation, which it CAN see over the knock sensor. You'll actually probably only knock once or twice on start up and I would be amazed if you heard it. If a Cobra can run on 87 without damage, then a SVT Focus can surely run off 89.