civic w/SC, why not?

[exman98]

I have a 98 civic EX coupe, and i am looking at making this car unique (still a daily driver).
I have been looking at supercharging my car and hopfully putting down some respectable numbers.( for a small engine that is)

the car has a stock engine- D16Y8 Vtec 1.6L
i have not been able to dyno it yet but it is suposedly able to put out 127 HP and about 107 lbs of torque.

I have read some stuf about a guy with the same car. he put a Jackson Racing SC and said he was running 142 HP at the wheels. he did not mention anything about torque. i think he was only runnig about 6 psi. he said it was a good street car still but i do a little street racing.

would i have any other options asides from jackson racing. it is hard to find a SC for a car like mine

with a light car like a civic would this make a good street car.
i have set a personal goal to be able to beat a 5.0 rustang w/NO SPRAY!
or am a just crazy.

[-Jayson-]

lol, okay i dont think your civic makes 127HP at the wheels, maybe at the crank but not the wheels. Correct me if im wrong though. Also in that case 6 psi should have given him alot more than 15HP. Im not sure about a civic being a car to make into a good street car, its just tooo slow to start out with. The slower the car is to start, the more money it takes to get it fast. But also to each his own, dont let anyone tell you cant mod a car you like to do what you want. Im sure if you put a supercharger on the car you would be into the mid to low 15's 1320. I dont think that will beat a 5.0 though.

[nissanfanatic]

Typically a 6psi setup should yield 40% gains. So 142whp is about correct given you are putting out 127BHP. Other options include IHE(which gives you no chance of beating a 5.0), nitrous(depends on how much you spray and how well it is tuned), and turbocharge(once again, requires proper tuning. I believe there are kits now, but if not some fabricating is in order.) My choice would be the turbocharger. I choose this because whatever turbocharger you select is going to be capable of at leat 250whp. Next is going to be the ability to intercool unlike the JR SC. Lastly is going to be the flexibility of selecting a power curve. You actually have the ability to select where you start and stop(if you want to) making power. You can simply get a boost controller and select how much boost you want to run. Plus the intercooler is going to make power much safer.

Any of these ways are going to cost a little money. Cheapest is going to be the IHE. Cheapes power adder is going to be the nitrous. Most expensive is probably gonna be the turbocharger kit. The SC is going to reqire choice 1 to make any serious power. Turbo kit will probably come with a filter and require an exhaust later on.

Can't beat the quiet power of a turbocharged engine along with the turbo sounds though. Good luck on whatever you choose. For the record though, superchargers heat up the intake charge just as much as a turbochager will given they have the same efficiency. The lower the efficiency, the higher the intake temp.

[solaris=amazing]

Don't forget, alot of people that juice up front wheel drive cars, forget to stiffen up the rear end.

Shocks, struts, whatever, make the back end STIFF. When you put alot of horsepower and torque to a front drive car, the weight transfer reduces your traction BIGTIME, stiff rear=no back body role.

Then again, this usually applies to front drive cars with more then 200 hp.

[Reed]

on these forums most of the time everyone will tell you to forget about superchargers and go with a turbo. they are right. you will see better torque curves and jsut more torque from the turbo (unless you plan on launching at 2k). if you want to supercharge, go ahead. dont let everyone tell you what to do with YOUR car, just make sure you do a lot of research before hand.
im gonna have to disagree with nissanfanatic about the efficiency of supers and turbos being the same. the supercharger will heat up the air more than a turbo and teh turbo can be intercooled. i dont know if the jackson unit is a centrifugal blower but if it is not then you wont be able to intercool, but if it is then the compressor might be as efficient as a turbo. dont forget that you will be using some of your already meager 107 ft/lbs to turn that supercharger so you might not get the response you want out of that unit. i personally am not a fan of belt driven blowers on any engine but especially not on little ones.

[-Jayson-]

ok someone explain to me why a turbocharger doesnt heat up the air as much as a supercharger? Cause i thought something that gets so hot it has to be cooled by engine oil and that it can get glowing red hot while running would heat the air up more than a supercharger. Cause my supercharger never gets to hot to touch, i doubt you can say the same thing for your turbos. YOu can safely run 7-8 PSI with my supercharger without an intercooler, i know you cant say the same thing for your turbos.

[Andy Dorsett]

There are lots of kits out there that run more than 7psi with a non-intercooled turbo (98-03 Grand Prix for example). The pre 86 Grand Nationals had no intercooler and ran boost in the mid teens. It is true that you cannot run as much boost on a turbo as a centrifugal supercharger for the same reason you can't with a positive displacement supercharger. A turbo and positive displacement supercharger start making their boost at lower engine speeds which means more torque which means higher cilinder pressure which means more prone to detonation.

The part of the turbo that can get red hot and needs to be cooled by engine oil, that you can't touch is the turbine side. The intake air runs through the compressor side which is only shaft connected to the turbine side.

[-Jayson-]

Grand Prix GTP is supercharged with a M90 Eaton blower, not a turbo. As for turbo parts, i didnt know that, i dont know much about turbos.

[Andy Dorsett]

The GTP comes with the Eaton you refer to. I was refering to a kit that was designed for the regular Grand Prix. It is a turbo with no intercooler and claims something like 350Hp. The GTP is factory rated at 240Hp.

[Reed]

well anytime you compress a gas it will heat up so if a turbo and a super had the same compressor then they would heat the same. but since there will never be a turbo and super with the same compressor you have to look at compressor efficiencys. a more efficient compressor will heat air less. thats how a turbo can heat the charge less than a super. now with a centrifugal supercharger, it can have a compressor as efficient as a turbos.

there are a million sc vs turbo threads where all of this as well as a bunch of misinformation has been discussed so i would check them if you wanted to learn about either. i was jsut giving my opinion on what i would do if i were to boost a tiny engine like his civic.

[nissanfanatic]

Turbos are capable of running more than 7psi non-intercooled because typically they are usually more efficient than a roots type compressor. Better efficiency=cooler intake charge.

[duplox]

Run a screw type supercharger. Less temperature rise than a centrifugal compressor(turbo or SC), no 'lag' time.

[exman98]

so you think a SC would be a helpless cause due the the better yield of a turbo.
for the monent i am planning of strengthening the internals (rods, cams.........) any recomendations on what mods to make first and the company.
I have heard of people runnig 9-11 psi an stock internals with the same SOHC engine i have, but it just doesn't sound safe.
would a turbo give me better top end?

[Andy Dorsett]

Some of the drag classes are considering allowing turbos again and it has the supercharger and nitrous guys whining. Ever wonder why turbos and superchargers have never been allowed to compete strait up? In classes that turbos are allowed they are weight penalized. In drag racing the rules even the playing field and leave you questioning which power adder to use. On the street there are no rules and there is no question which power adder to use.

[PWMAN]

For the torque difference a turbo creates it's way worth the lag.