Trying to verify this.

[Hypsi87]

I want others to read this and verify if this is true. I am not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that(check the Buick nonspeific thread "Rare grand national), I just want some other feedback. Espically other GN owners. As best as my knowlege serves me, the turbo buicks never had a roller cam stock, or roller rockers or stuff like that. Im not trying to play look whos right here, I am just wanting to verify this information. That is what this site is good for sorry for the long post guys..

Originally Posted by Mikes Mechanics

As far as buy a Grand National that is in rough condition. Dont waste you time. Espeacialy for 5 grand. You will be wasting your moola. No the 1985 Grand National did not come with a Supercharger. It only can with a Turbocharger. The engine was only a generation 2 block. It wasnt a bad engine but it had no guts. That also was the last year for the Sequential Fuel Injection which was a poor fuel system. It was a fuel dumper and cause a lot of problems.

The 86 and 87 Grand National were the better of all the years they were built. 1986 was the first Generation 3 block that came out with the Turbo Intercooler. What made this engine even better that was the first year they start using the roller cam and roller rockers. Also they came with the first Direct Ignition System(no distibutor). The coil pack was 3 times hotter the the standard ignition coil. The next up for this engine was the new fuel system called the Multiport Fuel Injection a more refined system. Now everyone was lead to believe that this engine from the factory was 245hp, but the truth was that because of the emmision standard set by the EPA in those years they could not rate it higher. The actual horse power was over 300hp. Now they backed up this little monster with a 200 4r trans with a modified valve body which gave it the hard shift from first to second gear causing a chirp from the tires.

The 1987 GNX was a monster by itself. It was a GN that was shipped to McLaren to have some modifications done. Such as the ceramic turbo bearings. Also there was a modification done to the timing. the cooling system was modifided to make the engine to run cooler. The Throttle Body was replaced with a larger bored body. The fuel system was modifided with larger injectors. The DIS coil was replace with Bosh Coil packs 3 separate. The Trans was beefed up inside to handle the extra hp. The most intriging thing that was done to this car was the rear suspension. They added a link system to it that was called a ratchet suspension. This was made to raise the body on hard acceleration to put more pressure on the rear wheels for more traction. The last but not least they lighten up some of the body.

Remember there was originaly only 500 of these cars built but because of a larger demand they built another 28 more. I know this because I worked for Buick when these cars came out and our dealer sold no#497 and my ex boss still owns no#521. The car came from the factory with a sticker price of $28,000 but were sold for as much as $60,000. As far as buying parts for these cars the only way to get them are thru a Buick dealership and you have to have the serial numbers from the car and the parts that you need, because Mclaren numbered them so that these cars couldnt be dupicated. I was a mechanic that was working on these cars and I know them insisde out.

Originally Posted by Mikes Mechanics

Hypsi87 it appears that you know something about automotive products. It seams to me that you dont know much about the Buick Grand National. You see the info that I posted comes from many years of working with Buick, 26 years to be exact.

You were right about correcting me on the SFI system. I did mix that up. It was the MPFI on the original National. (Multi Port Fuel Injection). In 1986 the National had SFI which was the better sytem(Sequential Fuel Injection). In the 1983 Grand Nationals the used the 4bbl Quadrajet carborator with the offset intake manifold. Thanks for correcting me, I guess the old saying is true that I will forget more than you will learn.

As far as your statements about the GNX I will just right them off as to you probably never seen one close up never mind worked on one. I had the pleasure to work on the only two sold in my area when they first came out of the McClaren Shop. I still work on one of them today.

Now as far as the Generation 2 and 3 Buick engine blocks, they were similar as far as the actual visual, but they were no where the same. The 1984 did not use the DIS ignition system because GM did not install DIS until 1986. It only came on two engines then, the 3.8C engine and the 3.8T. All other GM engines had distributors until 1986. The Generation 2 block did not have the strength that the 3 had. It did not have the same oiling system. If you knew anything about Buick engines you would know they had problems with the oil pressure in earlier engines. The problem stemed from the cam bearings. They dont even use the same oil pumps, The Gen 2 still used the external gear pump and the Gen 3 used the internal vein pump. They did use roller rockers and cam in these engines because they had problems with the hydralic tappets colapsing in the Gen 2 engines under hard acceleration. Here is a little more info that I didnt add in my first posting The crank shaft in the Gen 3 was a steel crank shaft as compared to the cast iron crank shaft in the Gen 2. The block itself had more strength added to the block skirt. To compare the 2 and say they are the same is utterly ridiculas. If you were to build up a Generation 2 block to point were it developed the same horse power that the 1987 Buick Grand National and the GNX had, you would be probably picking up the parts and cleaning the oil spill off the track on your first pass.

You see Hypsi87 I dont know what you know, but do you think I would have wasted my time posting the long post that I first did and now another? I usually wont argue with anyone when it come to cars. Everyone has the own Ideas and oppions about what they read or dont read and just make up. While I sit here reading the 1987 Buick Grand National service manual and the supplement sevice manual I will post only the facts straight from the books.

There is one other thing that I thought I would throw in. The year 1987 the had 2 cars very similar or maybe you would say the were the same. They had the Buick Grand National that we all know and love. They also had the Buick T Type which also had the 3.8 SFI Turbo Innercooled engine.(not to be mistaken with the 307 Oldsmobile engine) Did you know that the T Type was actually faster then the National. Yes its true, in the quarter mile tested by GM The National ran a 13:01 and the T Type ran a 12:98. This was because the T Type was 200 pounds lighter the the National. You see the wheels and seats weighed less.

If there is anything else you would like to discuss as far as Buick I own many service manuals from 1976 to 1990 maybe I can be of assitstance to you.

Any verification would be nice.

[tman]

I've known Hypsi87 for about a year now. I handpicked him to be the other primary moderator of Buick. Not because he was a cool guy(he is though) but he had knowledge where I lacked it(GN/GNX)

Hypsi owns and races a modified GN, so theres no question he knows what hes talking about. He attends meets a lot, and there are obviously a few, ahem, a few GNX's at the Buick GS nationals.

The accusations against Hypsi's character and knowledge are incorrect, and I cannot speak on behalf of the facts.

[gnfreak]

well.... 1987 wasnt a T type Buick renamed it to Turbo T.
ive never heard some of the claims the guy is saying. ive been into turbo regals for awhile and hear all kinds of misinformation. hipsi.. dont sweat this guy. most of what ive seen you post is very factual and does shoot down some of this "knowledge".

[-Josh-]

You're letting this guy get to you now, i know you're right, these other guys know you're right. Dont worry about it.

[gn1220]

First off, ASC built 547 GNX's not the claimed 528.
Second, GN's did NOT come with roller rockers. Just pull the valve cover off of one and you can see that.
Third, the GNX turbo did not have ceramic turbo bearings but a ceramic impeller that weighed less than the standered steel impeller, therefore causing quicker spool times.
Forth, the GNX throttle body was the same as the GN's as was the cooling system. The chip was programmed to allow the fans to come on sooner.
Fifth, the injectors were the same as the GN's also.
Sixth, if anything the GNX was heavier than the standered GN because they were all "loaded" with power windows, locks, cruise, CSII, power driver's seat, trunk kit, etc.
Seventh, it just depends on how the Turbo T is optioned against a GN as far as which is faster. A loaded out, leather interior, side marker light, full chrome package Limited won't be as fast as a GN with radio delete, crank windows, aluminum bumer supports etc.