alignment on new struts and springs

[fakehatch]

So last week I put in new KYB agx struts and H&R sport springs in the ride, and following protocol, I went to a local Car-X to have it alligned(sp?). The dude said that they can't align a car with lowering springs, said something about the toe(tow?) doesn't change, only the camber does. I've read quite few posts and I thought you only had to use camber adjustment for 2" or more. I'm at 1.75 and 1.5. Help me out so I can bust this chump out. Thanks in advance

[eckoman_pdx]

Well, depending on the car and the amount it's lowered, you may need a camber correction kit. If the camber lays outside the factory specs, you will need a camber kit to adjust the camber back to where it should be. If the toe is out, he can adjust that right now. Did he even check the aglinment first of just make a broad generalization? It sounds like he didn't check it (and doesn't know what he saying). if the cmaber is within facotry spec you won't need a camber kit and can algin it now, if it lays outside spec you will need one to properly align it, as the camber on a civic stock is not adjustable. Take it to a place that checks alginment for free. Have them check the algniment and show you the specs, then compare them to the OEM factory specs. This way you will know for certain what your alginment is, and what needs to be done/added, etc. When it is aglined, you want it aglined so the aglinment is all within factory specs.

[fakehatch]

It's a 96 civic hatch, lowered 1.75 front and 1.5 back(H&R sport springs) and no, he didn't even check before he made those statements. My only concern is that everyone says to have your car aligned if you add springs and especially if you change the suspension. Sooooo after I picked the car up (coolant flush, It's too cold in MN for that) he siad that the front was OK, but the back was a bit off. He said I could buy some shims and do it myself(close) or pay an ass load for them to put a camber kit on. Thing is my car drives fine and was only concerned about the long term efffects. I'm planning on taking it to a reputable shop that WILL check my alignment, then go from there. Thanks eckoman

[CivicSiRacer]

The toe DOES change when you raise or lower a car. Take it to someone else - apparently he's an idiot.

[BullShifter]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

The toe DOES change when you raise or lower a car. Take it to someone else - apparently he's an idiot.

You can fix the rear camber pretty easily without camber kits. Here's a link, only suggestion don't use cheap ass bolts as shown. http://home.earthlink.net/~civicex95/rearcamber.html You can also adjust the front camber by slotting the upper holes but that's a little more involved.

[knorwj]

just a quick clarification Q for jackassi and Civicsiracer.

You say the Toe does change from raising or lowering your vehicle.
My question is this, Does the toe actually change from raising or lowering or does it change because you had all of the suspension apart and more than likely didn't put it back together aligned?

[CivicSiRacer]

Originally Posted by knorwj

just a quick clarification Q for jackassi and Civicsiracer.

You say the Toe does change from raising or lowering your vehicle.
My question is this, Does the toe actually change from raising or lowering or does it change because you had all of the suspension apart and more than likely didn't put it back together aligned?

Yes the toe changes when your raise and lower your vehicle.

And when you put your suspension back together you never ever get it back the same way before you took it apart. Just the nature of things. Even 1/2 mm can equate to more than 1 degree depending on where the points are on your suspension.

[BullShifter]

It changes with the difference in height, just like camber changes to negative toe also moves. Toe is more important than camber when determining how your car will handle, a very small change will have a large effect to both handling and tire wear. The adjustment is simple and should always be checked.

Outer tie rods are what determine the toe and they should not be touched/disconnected during a typical spring/strut install. It's the new angles of the lowered suspension that affects toe.

[SilverY2KCivic]

It changes because as your suspension geometry changes, so does your camber and toe. As your suspension compresses, it cambers out the wheels more and more as they go higher into the wheel wells, and it also bows the wheels INward creating more and more toe, this is the nature of any suspension system. As you raise the car, the opposite happens. ANYTIME you make a height adjustment, you need to get your car realigned to compensate for the changes, weather putting it back together changes anything in itself or not.