abs.. to disable or not to disable???

[AkinaDriftKid15]

my dad hates abs and he said when i get a skyline he is going to turn it off im trying to tell him i will probly end up in flaming pile of metal on the side of the road and he responds with. "ABS is for idiots who don't know how to drive." so who is right me or him... and i also heard from a friend that there is some trouble with the skyline proportioning valve if thats true how would i go about fixing it.

[my3rdskyline]

Originally Posted by AkinaDriftKid15

my dad hates abs and he said when i get a skyline he is going to turn it off im trying to tell him i will probly end up in flaming pile of metal on the side of the road and he responds with. "ABS is for idiots who don't know how to drive." so who is right me or him... and i also heard from a friend that there is some trouble with the skyline proportioning valve if thats true how would i go about fixing it.

See Mike:

See Mike with NO ABS!


Show your dad this and tell him he's an idiot.

[Skyline_R32_Canada]

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by AkinaDriftKid15

my dad hates abs and he said when i get a skyline he is going to turn it off im trying to tell him i will probly end up in flaming pile of metal on the side of the road and he responds with. "ABS is for idiots who don't know how to drive." so who is right me or him... and i also heard from a friend that there is some trouble with the skyline proportioning valve if thats true how would i go about fixing it.

I agree with your Dad. I will be taking it off of my race GTR. If you can really drive, you do not need it. No offense Mike, but I am talking about the guys that spent their lives in cars racing them. His Dad seems like he knows what he is talking about, so I back his Dad on this one.

[AkinaDriftKid15]

Thank you skyline USA my dad has been racing go-karts since he was 10 and cars since he was 15 so id like to back my dads up now i've got alot more trust in him now that i've some of you guys to back up his words.

[Moppie]

There isn't a driver on the planet who can out brake a modern ABS system.
Even the early ones from the late 80s and early 90s require a level of skill only found in a top level professional race drivers to out perform them in the dry.

The only time ABS can inhibbit braking performance is when braking on gravel. On a loose surface being able to lock the wheels and dig into the hard surface underneath can help in braking, however modern systems designed by Holden and Ford in Australia can now out brake the average driver in even very loose surfaces.

ABS was banned from F1 for a very good reason, braking was producing G forces the drivers couldn't stand, there was a risk they might black out, or suffer damage to thier retinas and other organs.


If you remove it on a race car then its a matter of personal choice, but be aware that the guy behind you with it still fitted will be able to out brake you at the next corner.


If you remove it on a road car then your an idiot, your putting not only your life in danger, but also the lives of anyone you share the raod with, including your passangers.

If your that in-experianced a driver that you need to learn how to correctly control your braking, then you should not be buying a Skyline.
Start with something smaller, prehaps a 1.3l pulsar, or other small hatch back. Learn to drive that first, and get plenty of time in a Kart and or race car with your father in controlled circumstances.

[Circuit Theory]

I agreee with your dad in regards to it being for idiots in most cases. However my guess is you are very young and still learning how to drive. I think you should keep the ABS on your car since it sounds like it will be a daily driven car for you and you seem to still have some driving abilities to sharpen. Such as conquering panic braking vs controlled braking. In response to a reply above ABS is very superior to normal brakes while on a consistent and smooth surface but once a car is driven hard and weight starts being shifted from side to side and front to back and in many other direction the ABS is not superior because it senses slippage when in fact that tire is not slipping it is simply off the ground or light enough to not be spun so the ABS reacts to these inconsistencies and does it's job even if it is not the right timing. Another thing to mention is that F1 abs or any racing type abs is set up way different than your grandma's cadillac ABS or even a Skyline's abs.

[Moppie]

A traction control system might have trouble with a wheel being off the ground, but a modern 4 channel ABS system will not.

An ABS system merly modulates brake pressure to ensure the wheels are held at the point of almost locking, but not quite, the absolute traction limit.
Its exactly the same thing a good driver does when braking hard, only its able to do it much faster and with a much higher degree of precision since a computer processor works much faster than any human brain.
Modern 4 channel ABS systems are not at all phased by having one or all 4 wheels up in the air.

Older 2 and 3 channel systems did have problems on FWD set ups prone to lifting an inside rear wheel under hard cornering (watch an old Toyota Corona or Nissan Primera Touring car). Getting one wheel in the air is a condition experianced almost exclusivly by race cars, if your doing it in your road car on the road you are an idiot waiting for an accident.
Anyway, the old 2 and 3 channel systems were only able to modulate both back wheels as one channel, so if one left the ground, or experianced significantly less traction than the other, then both wheels would recieve the same reduced braking pressure, meaning the wheel with lots of traction would not be working as hard as it could, throwing off brake balance and causing all sorts of problems for a race car being turned into a corner (usualy understeer).

Modern 4 channel systems are of course unphased, the wheel with less traction gets less braking force and the wheel with the most traction gets its usual full amount. There is no loss in brake bias, and no un-expected change in handling.

And although the ABS systems used in F1 were tuned very aggresivly, they have not been used in such a long time that modern systems on road cars from the likes of BMW and Mercedes are infact now more sophisticated.

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by Moppie

There isn't a driver on the planet who can out brake a modern ABS system.

This true, but it depends on the track, and what the car is being built for. My car is going to be a 1/4 miler, so ABS is not big on my list.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

This true, but it depends on the track, and what the car is being built for.

The track is irrelevent, unless your building a rally car
But the car does matter, adding any serious brake upgrades, or making radical changes to the suspension can effect the ABS system, after all its only designed to work with the standard set up.

[SkylineUSA]

I reffering to those ralley tracks that go from dirt to road. I totally agree with you of course, if its all tarmac ABS is the way to go.

[my3rdskyline]

Originally Posted by AkinaDriftKid15

my dad hates abs and he said when i get a skyline he is going to turn it off im trying to tell him i will probly end up in flaming pile of metal on the side of the road and he responds with. "ABS is for idiots who don't know how to drive." so who is right me or him... and i also heard from a friend that there is some trouble with the skyline proportioning valve if thats true how would i go about fixing it.

I say if you are driving on the street you'd be a fool to get rid of it. On the track... well that's up to you.

[SkylineUSA]

Here is a good site to read up on ABS.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ake_122701.htm

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Here is a good site to read up on ABS.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ake_122701.htm

My ultimate point behind my post is that ABS can actually intervene (and it's unnerving when it does) long prior to impending wheel lockup, depending upon the car / programming.

I can see were your Dad does not like ABS, there as been more than occation where I knew I could out brake the ABS, and was almost involved in an accident, but given the situation it really depends on when the ABS is active if its an advantage or a henderance.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

My ultimate point behind my post is that ABS can actually intervene (and it's unnerving when it does) long prior to impending wheel lockup, depending upon the car / programming.

Thats kind of the idea, its ment to get in and take over before you lose control.
And as mentioned by myself, and the article you posted a link to, it will only have problems if you in some way alter the braking system in your car beyond what it was designed to deal with.

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

as been more than occation where I knew I could out brake the ABS, and was almost involved in an accident

Care to describe those cicimstances?
As mentioned before there is no way your brain can modulate the brakes enough to hold the tyres a traction threshold which not only allows maximum braking force, but also gives you control.
Unless your of course driving on gravel, in which case you shouldn't really be driving a road car at speeds that could get you into trouble.