Major Differences and other peoples opinion...

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

Well, as most of you know, i am planning to do an engine swap to my ride, at first i was thinking of just slapping on a custom turbo, but then realized i got lots and lots of mods to do with the Hp i'm planning to push...

I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things. First off i was planning to get the Gti-r Det, someone told me that it is excactly like the BB Det but just alittle beefier and it has a different turbo and manifold, but will fit the p11 just fine, then someone told me that that was wrong and that the BB Det is the way to go, because the engine fits exactly to the USM sr20de, and that it will produce more horsepower... Then another person told me that that was wrong information and said that the BB det manifold is too big and that there will have to be some more mods that have to be done in order to fit the BB, and the only reason why it produces more horses is that there is a larger turbo and manifold on the engine itself.... Thhheeeennn Someone else told me that that was wrong and that the GTI-r comes equipped with forged pistons,and other various things that make the gti-r a better overall engine, and that there will be alot less mods to actually fit the engine... Then i was told that the Gti-r only had cast-iron like the sr20de and that the BB comes equipped with the forged pistons, and other various things, and then someone told me that the gti-r and the BB were exactly the same engines and the only difference is the turbo manifold, and that the Gti-r came with individual oil jets.... MMAAAN i am confused...

Then after having my heart set on swapping engines, someone said that it would be alot better if i just slapped on a turbo, get forged pistons, intercooler, and some other internals, and that would be alot more reliable.....

What I am looking for is "the most reliable, 300-350 horses, best low end and high end, something that spools up fast, and something that will last......

Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry:

[G-Forces]

Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
MMAAAN i am confused...

No shit! I don't think you followed that thread carefully enough.

Here's the deal either the BB or GTi-R DET will have a hard time pumping out enough boost to get up to your goal. (300-350hp I'm assuming at the wheels) So you'll need to get a new turbo, injectors, MAF, ECU regardless. Plus you'll need to get a FMIC and piping all custom done as well. If you get all this for a DET you're just wasting money. It's easier to just just turbo your stock DE and add some water injection to get you that extra boost.

Now if your power goals are lower say less than 250hp at the wheels then you'll do fine with either the BB or the more expensive GTi-R.

In a lot of people's opinion the GTi-R is a waste of money and you'll be better off with the BB since more of the parts are swapable with the stock DE. And if something specific to the GTi-R breaks (say rocker arm) you'll be waiting a while for the parts to get here and your car will be down all that time.

As a final point it's kind of tough to give power estimates in crank hp when talking about mods. It's easier to talk about wheel hp since it's easier to measure. The stock DE will put out anywhere from 118-124hp at the wheels (whp). If you want to double or close to double your stock hp then get a DET. Which one depends on which one you want to afford.

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

Okay, lets say 250whp or 300whp on the safe side... What would be a better choice? to add the turbo to my stock DE or to just get the BB Det? And if i do either what else would i have to do to achieve that 300whp?, and also in those two choices which is more reliable, and which would last the longest??? Also what type of turbo should i add if i decide to just stick with adding the turbo? I was thinking of the t3/t04e ball bearing, but alot of people said that i should go with the t28 cause the t3/t4 manifold would require alot of unnecessary internal mods that would just be a waste of money. And if i decide to go with the BB det, what else would i need to do to require the 300whp without changing the turbo and manifold?

I was actually leaning towards slapping on the turbo, do you know or have any ideas of what a good set up would require to get the 300whp?

[G20ps]

I am no expert and could be wrong, but I was told by JWT that the T28 would max out around 290 HP at the flywheel...

[b-b00gie]

Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
300whp on the safe side... What would be a better choice? to add the turbo to my stock DE or to just get the BB Det?

a DET will get you about 195whp or so in stock form. To get to 300whp you will have to basically slap a *whole* new turbo setup onto the DET.


If you just purchase the magic 300whp producing turbo kit and put it on the DE, you will bypass the cost of a DET and be just as well off.

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

What the heck is a magic turbo 300whp kit?

[b-b00gie]

I just meant whichever components you had in mind for a 300whp setup...

Many people have used this to reach 300 to 320whp...

JWT ECU
Cobra MAF
FMAX/Protech/Redline Manifold
T3/T04E hybrid with Stage III .63 A/R turbine housing and .50 A/R 50trim compressor housing
MSD 50lb/hr injectors
FTF or JWT fuel rail
HKS or TiAL Wastegate
HKS, Greddy, TiAL BOV
Walbro or 300ZX TT Fuel pump
Electronic Boost Controller
2.5 inch Downpipe should be ok, bigger is better though
3 inch exhaust
Strong Clutch, equivalent to ACT ExtremePP with HD Disk
Large Spearco Intercooler

[P11GT]

im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope. Ive lowered my compression in order to hopefully achieve this, i would have went for GTiR rods aswell but theyre far too damn expensive. I just hope i dont regret it.

For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.

The BB DET i have very little info on as the UK BB only had a CA18DET in it. With it being called a SR20DET i thought that it would be the same as the GTiR SR20DET but the more i read from here, the more im thinking not so.

If you still want your 300, then GTiR i think, but then you still gotta work out how to get 300BHP down on the tarmac, more expense here, i.e. running gear/tranmission, suspension..........

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

b-boogie, do you still need to add the internals in your list, or is all that you think i need? like rods, pistons to lower compression, etc...? If thats all i need for 300whp in your list, then i'm gonna do that, but i have a feeling that your gonna tell me that there is more.... If whati do is include everything in that list will my engine last?

Hey p11gt, i thought you already got your gti-r rods?

[P11GT]

I wish, nah just the pistons. Rods are like $100 US each, then theres the bearings......

[b-b00gie]

Originally posted by P11GT
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.

Not true. Its been done here *tons* of times. Even 400+whp on DE with stock internals and water injection.


The setup I've listed above will get you over 300whp on *stock* internals. This is close to 350hp @ crank. There's tons of DE running around with that setup here.


The problem is *not* the internals, the problem is picking the correct turbo in the correct trim for *your* application...

[P10DET]

Originally posted by P11GT
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.

You couldn't be more wrong. I have personally ridden in two cars with turbocharged SR20DEs that have made over 400 hp to the wheels on race gas and something like 360 hp at the wheels on pump gas. I know of others that make at least that much hp and are or have been driven every day. Every day.

Originally posted by P11GT
For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.

Cast pistons. Unless you're planning on spending over $10,000 US the BB DET will handle all the power you can throw at it (if done properly).

The GTi-R engine gets you quad throttle bodies. These don't add power, but will add a touch of throttle response. It will got you a short runner, large plenum intake manifold that will add power (about 15 hp).

[P10DET]

Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things
<snip>
Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry:

Well, Boogie and I have given you the facts.

I have built a duplicate of Mike Kojima's killer NA engine. I have a BB SR20DET in my P10 G20. I have seen cars with the GRi-R SR20DET in it, including a friend's. I have several friends who have turbocharded their SR20DE and drive it every day, including three that have put over 400 hp to the wheels.

The USM SR20DE and the BB DET use the same block, head, oil pump, etc. The BB DET does use different valves (they are sodium filled). Otherwise, almost all of the parts for the BB DET are interchangeable with the USM DE. The BB DET will net you about 250 bhp things (after adding mods) before you have to start spending a lot of money replacing things.

The GTi-R engine uses virtually no parts in common with the USM SR20DE or the BB SR20DET. The block, head, oil pump, intake manifold, etc. are all different and not easily sourced in the US. The GTi-R DET will net you about 250 bhp (after adding mods) before you have to change the MAF. I'm not sure about the injectors. After those changes, the engine will max out abotu 275 bhp before you have to change the turbo.

For about the cost of a GTi-R DET, or maybe a little more, you can buy a wide variety of turbo manifolds, turbos, injectors, water injection, etc. that will allow you to reach your goal of 300-350 hp. Well, actually, it will likely cost you a bit more than a GTi-R DET. Figure $4-5k before labor.

As far as what to get, all I'm going to say is read the SE-R Mailing List archives. Do some research and make up your own mind or at least learn to ask more informed questions. Here is the link to the archives:

http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/

[G20TurboVisionCrew]

So i Guess i'm stickin with the turbo slap on... hey boogie, or p10, for the t3/t4, ball bearing or regular turbo? Also p10 the link you gave me gave me some message sayin ----

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You may not retreive SE-R Mailing List archive messages found via a general search engine. If you are interested in reading messages related to Nissan SR20DE powered vehicles, please go to the SE-R Mailing List web site to search the mailing list archives, or to SE-R.net for FAQs, repair tips, etc.

$Id: forbidden.phtml,v 1.2 1998-05-14 21:40:09-05 dev Exp $ 192738

So i guess what you guys are saying is that the turbo add on would be the best choice, just please let me know if i should go with the ball bearing or regular turbo, makes a biiig price difference
thanks guyz,,,

[ty423]

I think you are looking in the wrong area...try www.egroups.com and find this mailing list and join.

P10DET didn't you already mention all the stuff you just said in an another post? De Javu..