Frame Beaming(Vibration 50-70 MPH)

[dreamer56]

I have a new 2004 Silverado LT 1850 miles. It shakes and vibrates at 60-70 MPH. The Dealer put on new tires and balanced several times. GM calls the vibration frame beaming. They will not consider repairs if the vibration does not exceed a certain level with 200-500 pounds of weight in the back between the axel and tailgate. Without the weight the vibration is unbearable and out side the required specifications 8-24 hertz or something like that. With the weight, my feet still tingle after 1 hour of driving. Although my dealer, who has been great through the ordeal, has recommended to GM to buyback the truck, GM refuses. Now I am faced with arbitration. I have searched the internet and have found numerous 2004 Silverado owners who have the same problem. By coincidence, when I was at the dealership a guy brought in a 2004 Silverado with the same problem. The tech manual states frame beaming can occur in 99-2004 trucks. The jury is out on the 2005s. All the articles and forums I have read offer no solution. Has anyone been through the BBB arbitration process? I do not believe I can trust buying another Chevy. I drove a 1986 K5 for ten years with no problems, A 1996 Chevy Extended cab step side for four years with no problems. Since 1999 all you hear about is problems. It looks like the apple pie has gone bad. GM better step up to the plate or they will be looking like Chrysler did in the 70s.

Dreamer

[GMMerlin]

I have never heard of "vibration frame beaming"...doesn't mean it doesn't exist..just means I have not heard of it.
First things first...was the truck driven with an EVA (electronic vibration anaylizer) if so what were the results...First ,second or third order vibration of what system?
Was a vibration worksheet performed and the vibration graphed using the Vibration software 5.0?
Was the driveshaft checked for runout? How about the hubs and axles?
There are a number of rotating componants that will cause a vibration..also some road surfaces (mostly concrete with expansion joints) can cause a vibration sensation depending on the speed and wheelbase of your vehicle.
You never mentioned what truck you have...2wd,4wd,reg cab,extended cab,crew...1500,2500,2500HD
Just my

[dreamer56]

Silverado 1500 2 WD: After loading 500 pounds of sand bags they did the EVA. The results were within the parameters of 8-24 hz. They did not give me the exact number. Whatever it was it still shakes unbearably. They did state that without the weight the vibration was worse and out side the parameters. Unsure of software. I asked about the hubs, rotors, driveshaft, u-joints and axel. They were not interested.

GM issued a service bulliten #1575165

They are under instriuctions from GM "no repair attempts should be made".

[gschretter]

Originally Posted by dreamer56

Silverado 1500 2 WD: After loading 500 pounds of sand bags they did the EVA. The results were within the parameters of 8-24 hz. They did not give me the exact number. Whatever it was it still shakes unbearably. They did state that without the weight the vibration was worse and out side the parameters. Unsure of software. I asked about the hubs, rotors, driveshaft, u-joints and axel. They were not interested.

GM issued a service bulliten #1575165

They are under instriuctions from GM "no repair attempts should be made".

Where can I go to read this service bulliten?

Strange. I have seen Jeeps with some much frame damage and other parts that they look like that will not go down the street but they do. Never any vibs stuff. Sounds like something is out of alignment when they made the truck.

I wish you could camera the truck going down the road. Like all 4 tires and the drive shaft. Something is causing it?

Where does it feel like it is coming from?

Back or front?
Passagener/Driver side?

If your frame is vibing then why can you not weld round stock between the two frame rails to increase the strength. In Jeeps I add about 200 lb of steel between the frame to make if strong enought to hold 400 hp engines with at least 38" tires.

Last time I heard of frames making noise the guys Jeep fell apart. Frame was rusted out all from the inside.

[Silver X]

Welcome to the world of dissapointed chevy owners.You are very correct on the fact that since 99 the product of GM has sunk to its all time lowest.
I am not A GM hatter but I cant believe that in todays society that GM still try's to pull the wool over your eyes and say nothings wrong.That's what I heard from day one of my bad expiereince from my purchase of A 2002 silverado. It was doomed from day one but the dealer kept telling me it was within specs. How can piston slap be within specs. I have never in my entire life been so dissapointed in this product.My truck spent more tme in the shop then in my own drive way.Round and round we went back and forth till I finally got so fed up with it I couldnt take it any longer.Needless to say I traded it in for another truck.I didnt go back to chevy I bought A foreign full size truck and so far no problems
2004 NISSAN TITAN baby!!! 305 hp 9500 towing cap 5 speed Automatic.
This truck kicks some serious Butt!!!

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by dreamer56

Silverado 1500 2 WD: After loading 500 pounds of sand bags they did the EVA. The results were within the parameters of 8-24 hz. They did not give me the exact number. Whatever it was it still shakes unbearably. They did state that without the weight the vibration was worse and out side the parameters. Unsure of software. I asked about the hubs, rotors, driveshaft, u-joints and axel. They were not interested.

GM issued a service bulliten #1575165

They are under instriuctions from GM "no repair attempts should be made".

Unfortunately I missed that bulletin in my search for answers to your post.
But my comment about road surfaces was right on the money...you probally feel this more on concrete road surfaces don't you?
I own an 02 Serria 1500 X-cab and maybe its just me, but I am not vibration sensitive (meaning I personally am not bothered by some road vibration)and I have never felt the sensation you are describing..
We have customers I have delt with that are anal about road vibration..so bad, that I have ridden with them with an EVA that detected no vibration while they complained the entire time about how bad it was....funny thing was one customer said it was so bad they couldn't control the vehicle, but never complained about the severe brake pulsation when stopping.

Unfortunately it has come to a time where truck owners expect their trucks to ride like luxury cars...some people need to realize that it is still a truck and the ride is going to be different.
I have been a truck owner since I have been driving and personally I am disappointed that my truck doesn't ride like a truck.
Sorry you are not satisfied with your truck...I on the other hand am very satisfied with mine..got 80K on it and have not had any of the problems people here are complaining about...which means one of two things....my expectations are lower or I got the only perfect truck that GM made

[mjgjr72]

i have 2000 silverado, had bad vibration from right front on highway at 70mph, rotated and balance tires and did not fix, the only thing i found was that the right front was sitting lower than left so i adjusted the ride hieght and aligned front end and have not had the problem since. don't know if thats your problem, but it may be worth a shot, make sure they adjust ride hight and do complete alignment including camber and caster adjustment and not just a toe and go

[Silver X]

I am sure glad somebody is happy with there truck but it just cant be coinsadence that there are that many people that are having problems with there trucks.I do agree with you on the fact that A truck should ride like A truck and not A luxury car but with the tecknology that we have today GM has no excuse for shitty engineering.(Have you stepped on your parking brake latey)
It just seems like GM in there effort to cut cost and boost profit may wind up biteing them in the butt when alot of loyal chevy owners who are tired of getting the run around will seek another type of truck. Weather it be Ford,Dodge,or Nissan

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by Silver X

I am sure glad somebody is happy with there truck but it just cant be coinsadence that there are that many people that are having problems with there trucks.I do agree with you on the fact that A truck should ride like A truck and not A luxury car but with the tecknology that we have today GM has no excuse for shitty engineering.(Have you stepped on your parking brake latey)
It just seems like GM in there effort to cut cost and boost profit may wind up biteing them in the butt when alot of loyal chevy owners who are tired of getting the run around will seek another type of truck. Weather it be Ford,Dodge,or Nissan

I would tend to disagree to an extent.
First off if take in account how many hundred of thousands or millions of trucks that GM sold and compare that to the number of people complaining here on the forum, I would say the number is small in comparison.
Why do I say that..easy..misery loves company and an anonymous internet forum is the medium that brings those people togather.
Humans love to complain..its what we do best.
When I studied business and customer relations, some of the interesting things were the amount of people will complain about a product as opposed to the number that will praise it.
In general if you are dissatisfied with something you will ,on average, tell 14 people..if you are satisfied with a product you will remain silent or might tell 1 other person.
Also if you look around you will see there are a handful of members here that will jump on every thread and tell their story to who ever will listen.
Next, humans tend to exaggerate and twist facts in their favor...for instance I had a customer come in complaining that we just worked on their vehicle for a concern and they are a loyal customer and they demand satisfaction...so I pull their service history...They were in the shop over a year ago for a free courtesy vehicle inspection where they declined the recommended work....when I show them the history and the facts, they accuse me of lying..
Which brings me to this..

Posted by dreamer56 - 12-29-2004 at 06:49 PM

Silverado 1500 2 WD: After loading 500 pounds of sand bags they did the EVA. The results were within the parameters of 8-24 hz. They did not give me the exact number. Whatever it was it still shakes unbearably. They did state that without the weight the vibration was worse and out side the parameters. Unsure of software. I asked about the hubs, rotors, driveshaft, u-joints and axel. They were not interested.

I read the bulletin and thought about it on my 50 mile drive home tonight.
Basically, the customer is not using the vehicle the way it is intended to be used...let me explain..
What is a truck used for?
Hauling loads, pulling trailers

What are most people using their trucks for...transportation...As I drove home, I took notice of the sheer number of trucks with empty beds..one man or woman well dressed driving home from work..many of the trucks did not have trailer hitches..what does this tell me..these people are driving trucks just to drive trucks..they are not carring a heavy load or pulling a trailer, they are driving the truck in place of a car.
The bulletin states to load the vehicle with 500 lbs and drive it...what that is doing is simulating using the truck for its intended purpose..If the concern is not there when the truck is operated as designed, then there is not problem.
I can live with that...

[gschretter]

It takes twice as much energy to say something postive than something negative.


That is what you get when you buy a new vehicle. Problems. That is why I only buy cars that have over 100,000 them. At that mileage most of the really bad bugs are fixed and you have to do is replace parts.

[Silver X]

You talk as if you were A robot! Humans tend to complain. I am A person and I think thats what GM has forgotten. We are people not just numbers!!!
I disagree with you. I am very happy with my Nissan Titan I tell everyone I run into.I just think that we have moved into an era of mass information at your finger tips and if I am unhappy on any product I have the right to display my opinion. I understand that GM has sold Millions of trucks there is no denying it but on the other hand I think GM has lost the customer satisfaction rule.
We are the people who purchase this product and if the product is not up to par then you think twice before another purchace.Please dont get me wrong I loved my chevy truck. I had A 92 with no problems what so ever.I purchased another truck 10 years later with huge amounts of problems.There is just no excuse for that type of engineering.I tried for two long years to be A loyal customer to the product but in the end it was just more than I can bear.I just seems funny that there are very few people I know who own the chevy that doesnt have some kind of problem with it. So your telling me that when I would start my truck up and get all that rattle from piston slap thats normal. I was always told it was within specs. 4 wheel disc brakes but the emergeny brake never held the truck.Kinda funny that in 05 they went back to drums.Steering colum always had a rattle even though it was repaired several times.The list goes on and on but I was always told it was within specs. ( I was born at night but it wasnt last night).I value your opinon Mr Merlin and I'm not trying to disrespect you in any way but you sound just like the service teck guys at the dealership.Seems like your all programmed from the same computer.
Customer satisfaction and reliability should be GM's top priority.Thats what brought me back for another silverado in 02. I was in for A rude awakening when I recieved my 02. It was doomed from day one.At first I thought I just bought A lemon but when my brother who lives 1200 miles away purchased one A month later from A totally diffrent dealership and was having the same problems that I was having I knew it just wasnt A lemon. Needless to say he traded his in too.

[gschretter]

SilverX you make a good point. I agree, I had a 87 Ford that had 350,000 miles and I sold to a guy local and he drives it back and forth from Dallas,TX to Mexico fully loaded. He has done this run 10 times with not problems with my old truck.

Now my 2000 3500 has developed a small knock in the engine at idle and there is some weird knocking noise under the truck and that I can not find.

I thought with all this new tech vehicles would be better.

There is one thing I do like about Chevy / Ford to others (Nissan) look at the cost to repair. Yes the Nissan will have a 100% chance of not having a problem for a long time but when they wear out or have a problem they cost twice as much to fix.

Something to think about.

[dr_of_lovephd]

I have noticed many of the people that have replied to this post have owned older chevy trucks before, like 96 or 92. Did these trucks not have any vibrations or anything? I had an 89 chevy pickup that was the first vehicle I owned. I loved that truck. I bought it in 96 and drove it for 7 years with very few problems. But it did have a vibration it the steering shaft and a rough ride. The 4WD would hum and the drive shaft would clink if it shifted gears too hard. But I thought it was a great truck. At first I asked my father to help me fix it, both he and my grandfather are mechanics, and he said once it stops working we will fix it. He must have known something I did not because it never stopped working. I sold the truck last year and the guy who bought it is still driving it around.

[quote=gschretter]
I thought with all this new tech vehicles would be better.

gschretter,
I personaly think this new tech on vehicles makes them much worse and less reliable. If you want keep a vehicle more than five years you will have to start replacing many of the sensors and environmental protection stuff. I know from watching my father and grandfather work on cars, and doing a little myself, that probably 75% of the problems people are haveing with cars now is problems with the technology, mainly all that environmental protection equipment. With a car built 30 years ago you could count on only needing to replace the points, coil, belt, and a few other minor things to fix most of the problems. Now if a vehicle has a problem and most mechanics just start replacing sensors till they find the one that is causing the problem.

[Silver X]

Yes I do agree with you Gschretter.By all means I am not on this forum to bash GM.I am hoping that maybe GM will see enough complaints about it and change the way they do business.It really broke my heart to have to trade my chevy in. I think GM knows how to capture the looks of there new vehicles but there reliability is no longer there. As I said before I went back to another chevy because my 92 was so reliable.I had no problems with it what so ever. 10 years later in 02 it was A totally diffrent ball game.When I traded my chevy in at the nissan dealership they took my truck to the back lot where it was to remain there untill it was going to be autioned off at the end of the month. I had forgotten my cell phone in the truck so the dealership manager walked me back to my truck. Not including my truck there were 22 silverados and 8 ford pickups waiting to be sold at aution.When I saw that it just verified that I wasnt the only one that was unhappy with my truck.All the trucks except for 3 were the new body style from 99-04.
I know that every new vehicle has its share of problems and bugs to work out but you have to stand behind your product.Who would of thought that in the 70's when the first foriegn cars arrived on U.S soil that it would be the number one selling vehicles of today. For A long time Ford ,chevy and dodge have had no compatition from the foregn trucks but I think times are going to be changing.NIssan has really did its homework.I am amazed by the way this truck handles.Towing capacity is 9500,305 hp 5.6 liter engine Dohc.Very quiet,vey powerfull,very roomy and it gets decent gas millage.Read the reviews I'm not trying to sell this truck to anybody I let the truck speak for itself but if you drive one you will be hooked..

[jumpingjack66]

Quote would tend to disagree to an extent.
First off if take in account how many hundred of thousands or millions of trucks that GM sold and compare that to the number of people complaining here on the forum, I would say the number is small in comparison.
Why do I say that..easy..misery loves company and an anonymous internet forum is the medium that brings those people togather.
Humans love to complain..its what we do best.
When I studied business and customer relations, some of the interesting things were the amount of people will complain about a product as opposed to the number that will praise it.
In general if you are dissatisfied with something you will ,on average, tell 14 people..if you are satisfied with a product you will remain silent or might tell 1 other person.
Also if you look around you will see there are a handful of members here that will jump on every thread and tell their story to who ever will listen.
Next, humans tend to exaggerate and twist facts in their favor...for instance I had a customer come in complaining that we just worked on their vehicle for a concern and they are a loyal customer and they demand satisfaction...so I pull their service history...They were in the shop over a year ago for a free courtesy vehicle inspection where they declined the recommended work....when I show them the history and the facts, they accuse me of lying..
Which brings me to this..

Quote:I read the bulletin and thought about it on my 50 mile drive home tonight.
Basically, the customer is not using the vehicle the way it is intended to be used...let me explain..
What is a truck used for?
Hauling loads, pulling trailers

What are most people using their trucks for...transportation...As I drove home, I took notice of the sheer number of trucks with empty beds..one man or woman well dressed driving home from work..many of the trucks did not have trailer hitches..what does this tell me..these people are driving trucks just to drive trucks..they are not carring a heavy load or pulling a trailer, they are driving the truck in place of a car.
The bulletin states to load the vehicle with 500 lbs and drive it...what that is doing is simulating using the truck for its intended purpose..If the concern is not there when the truck is operated as designed, then there is not problem.
I can live with that...

Sometimes i think GMmerlin thinks about his stock options before he gets involved in a post (no offense!). It is undeniable that these new model silverados have serious factory, or worse, engineered defects. Like my emergency brake which will never work properly for more then a month. This TSB i'm sure has caused many injuries to inocent people but you wont hear it on the news untill GM gets bitch slapped by the ntsb. GM's answer was to take two steps back and go back to drum on the rear of there PU's, to hell with the rest of us who are stuck with this death trap garbage. How many times have dealerships repaired this parking brake problem buy recommending that all disks and brake parts be replaced, or when your ABS is activating at 5 MPH and pushing you into intersections the dealer tells you its your front hubs( totally destroyed, have to be replaced, cant be the ABS "trust me") at 38,000 miles. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy but at some point somebody at GM decided this was a good way to kick back some money to the dealerships who are starving apperantly, We'll just resist recall and let the dealerships shaft everybody. To end this, i want to say that i value Mr. GMMerlins help here at AF but Merlin you cant really believe that dreamer went to all the trouble of looking for explainations to what his Dealer believes is a major defect, and you think it is just a matter of not using the vehicle as it was intended? I for one have never heard of frame beaming, I bet GM has,wanna know Why? Not only did they write and issue a TSB for it, but they spent the money to decide exactly how much beaming is comfortable. I DRove tracter- Trailers for 13 years guys and trucks are rough when empty, but they would not cause physical discomfort because the drivers would not buy them