Heel toe downshifting ?'s

[robmxer]

Any pointers? I have an o4 wrx and regularly double-clutch to downshift- my problem is when I'm going into corners with speed, I have to let go of the brakes to punch the gas, I know you can do this while still braking, using the heel-toe method, but I haven't been able to do it with good feel and proper rev-matching. It seems as if my feet are too big or something. Do you brake with your heel and clip the gas with your toe or vise-versa? Is it just hard to do in wrx's because of pedal location? Any help is greatly appreciated. I just don't like the feeling of decelerating, then letting off the brakes to puch the gas, then getting back on the brakes-might as well wait for the synchros to catch up and shift normally.

[kfoote]

There is no reason to double clutch with modern transmissions. The only time I have ever double clutched repeatedly was in a Miata 8 hours into a 13 hour endurance race with a clutch going bad and a transmission that had already lost 1st, 2nd, and 5th gears.

I heel and toe downshift all the time. I've done it for so long it's habit at this point and doesnt really require any conscious effort.

[Forkliftguy]

I would think, keep in mind I haven't driven a WRX, that if your pedal faces are located to far apart depth wise, it would cause a great deal of difficulty to perform this method effectively. Maybe if you could find a way to bring the throttle pedal more level with the brake pedal it would make life a little easier?

[kfoote]

The WRX is not that difficult to heel and toe downshift on with the pedals in the stock position. The biggest issue with the WRX is that there is a lot of brake pedal travel which takes some getting used to. It is easier in the STi than the non-STi's, but it's prety easy throughout the entire Impreza line.

The most difficult cars I have driven to heel-toe downshift on with the pedals in their stock location is a 1991 Ford Probe GT I had, and a 1993 Ford Mustang Cobra R, two cars in which you would have thought the designers would have considered it.

[robmxer]

I got some smaller profile shoes and that helped alot. I think I just need to practice it more.

[Stickin_It_2_Em]

Beacuse I wear size 14's, I cant heal toe shift that easily in most cars, so I brake with me left, and gas with my right. My heels NEVER touch the flor, they are always on the pedal's. I also only wear sock's when I drive so I can grip the pedals with my toe's (I can pick up alot of shit with them) But that seems to work best for me, whether its driving on the streats, or racing autocross.

[RVMAN]

The "heel-toe" is used to shave the time it takes to MOVE your brake/clutch foot side to side...by slanting it OVER both pedals only your ankle is working to select which pedal is going to be pushed.

[itrgtr]

here, u should read up on this. http://www.tcsracing.org/heelandtoe.htm

it takes practice. good luck and be careful.

[kfoote]

Originally Posted by RVMAN

The "heel-toe" is used to shave the time it takes to MOVE your brake/clutch foot side to side...by slanting it OVER both pedals only your ankle is working to select which pedal is going to be pushed.

No, heel-toe is used to match engine RPMs to drivetrain speed when downshifting enetering a corner. At the limit of a car's braking capabilities, and most prominent in RWD cars, but still true to a degree in FWD and AWD cars, not properly rev matching can upset the balance of the car by slightly locking up the drive wheels. This can cause the drive wheels to have a left lateral force (long physics discussion as to why it's left, way beyond the scope of this post), and can cause serious problems. Done correctly, you are using 2 feet on all 3 pedals simultaneously.

If you're looking to shave time from the brake to gas pedal transition, learn how brake with your left foot. I brake with my left foot everywhere on track where I'm not downshifting. This is a highly advanced technique, takes a lot of getting used to, and is not reccommended in a manual car for street driving.

[RVMAN]

Right, I should have said "using your left foot to operate both the brake/clutch"...you shave time. The RPM/tranny/downshift part was (I thought) a given, but I didn't mention it because I didn't want to seem condensending to ROBMXER. Thanks for spotting my mistake.

[RVMAN]

ITRGTR's post gives a good site to read up on the "left foot clutch/right foot brake-gas" method, which is easer to master. Great thread guys.

[P10DET]

Originally Posted by RVMAN

Right, I should have said "using your left foot to operate both the brake/clutch"...you shave time.

That would have been even more incorrect.

[P10DET]

itrgtr, is Al Abadillado still in cone crazy?

[fierangero]

interesting...i was always taught to not hit the brake and gas at the same time. it would make more sense to drive like normal, but heel/toe the two left pedals, and keep your power foot isolated.

[kfoote]

Hitting the brake and gas at the same time is harder on the engine, driveline, and brakes, if the car is in gear, but can be useful if you know exactly why you are doing when you're doing it. Done properly, heel and toe downshifting is easier on the driveline of the car at a very slight cost of fuel milage.