'99 LX 3.8L Bad Engine Noise UPDATE!!

[Windywoes]

I am a little embarrassed, but I had the problem with my Windy all wrong now that I have seen the box of old parts. It was not the plenum baffle. The item that broke in my engine is the push rod guide frame. This a molded plastic frame (PA66-GF) that keeps the push rod from rotating. Did you know this engine uses a roller cam? I didn't. I cannot believe that the only thing that keeps all the roller push rods from rotating is this plastic guide frame. The end two guide positions broke away and that allowed two of the push rods to rotate at will. When they did rotate the roller could not smootly move on the cam lobe and the result was two worn lobes (actually worn and galled). The broken off piece of guide frame was free to move about the valve train assembly. The entire repair was very expensive as the engine had to come out. If i can get my act together I will try to get some digital pictures for viewing if anyone asks.

I am sorry to have mis-informed you. Has anyone else had this happen to them with the 3.8L engine? For your sakes I hope not.

[windstar4family]

Huh interesting. I haven't seen this particular thing happen. How much $$ is expensive. Continue with the RTVing. LOL

[Windywoes]

Originally Posted by windstar4family

Huh interesting. I haven't seen this particular thing happen. How much $$ is expensive. Continue with the RTVing. LOL

This plastic part is a guide and holder for the roller tappets. I can't seem to find a schematic to even know exactly where it is located. The engine had to come out to rplace the beat up cam. You know what is involved in all that work. I am too sheepish to even repeat how much it was. I even considered a new long block from Ford, but that was way too much. Did not trust the other suppliers. So after all this, it is not even related to the plenum baffle problem so maybe RTV for your fix is fine.

[12Ounce]

Windy
Very sorry to hear about the big problem. No, I did not know the engine used roller-type cam followers. Normally you would think that would indicate "good engineering". Plastic lifter guides...that settles the engineering question.

Just for clarification ... had you ever RTV'd the intake plenum piece in place?

..Also, do you think possibly this engine was re-built before?

[Windywoes]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Windy
Very sorry to hear about the big problem. No, I did not know the engine used roller-type cam followers. Normally you would think that would indicate "good engineering". Plastic lifter guides...that settles the engineering question.

Just for clarification ... had you ever RTV'd the intake plenum piece in place?

..Also, do you think possibly this engine was re-built before?

12 Ounce: I apparently now realize that I have never had any issues with the intake plenum except for TSB 03-16-1 ( OBDII 171/174 Too lean). I am the original owner so a rebuild is unilkely.

Engineers usually want to design the things the right way, but the bean counters restrict them. They also restrict the Tier 1 & 2 suppliers for cost reductions, which, in my opinion, leads to inferior parts.

[Dngrsone]

If you look in the Chilton's or the Hayne's manuals you will see pictures of little metal "H" shaped lifter guides... somewhere aorund '97 they went straight to the plastic-only guides (I surmise since mine didn't have the metal ones)

As to how or why your guide broke... either it had a flaw in it when it was originally installed, some foreign object got between the lifter and the cam, or the lifter had a catastophic failure are my guesses since the plastic is pretty sturdy and there shouldn't be much in the way of twisting on that lifter when everything is working as it should.

[Windywoes]

Originally Posted by Dngrsone

If you look in the Chilton's or the Hayne's manuals you will see pictures of little metal "H" shaped lifter guides... somewhere aorund '97 they went straight to the plastic-only guides (I surmise since mine didn't have the metal ones)

As to how or why your guide broke... either it had a flaw in it when it was originally installed, some foreign object got between the lifter and the cam, or the lifter had a catastophic failure are my guesses since the plastic is pretty sturdy and there shouldn't be much in the way of twisting on that lifter when everything is working as it should.

Thanks for the input. The two lifters involved do not look like they suffered catastrophic failure, but the plastic guide looks like it failed along a structural junction. Does anyone know where I can get a picture of the plastic guide as opposed to the "H" guides?

[Dngrsone]

I might have a somewhat clear pic of one in my computer at home, I'll try to remember to post one if I do.

[tjcara]

I have the very same problem!!! now I am shaking at the thought of the cost... any hints as to what I am in for? Also, how dangerous is it to run my engine now... is total engine failure around the corner?

[Dngrsone]

If you have lifter issues, you need to stop driving the vehicle now.

[Windywoes]

Originally Posted by Dngrsone

If you have lifter issues, you need to stop driving the vehicle now.

I have to agree. If the guide has broken and the lifters turn in their bore hole they can really beat up the cam and also break apart. You do not want broken metal parts swimming around the engine. My noise was not that bad for about 3 weeks, which led me to believe it was only the loose baffle in the intake plenum. The noise got suddenly louder prompting me to bring it to the shop at once. At this point it sounded like a crank bearing or rod bearing it was so pronounced.

I would like to hear from others with this condition.

[ModMech]

I know this is of zero help to anyone, but every time I read about the 3.8L, I am once again renewed in my pleasure of our 3.0L.

100K and not ONE problem (aside from the shifting cause by myself installing the wrong ATF).

[12Ounce]

ModMech
From most accounts, the 3.0 does appear to be bullet-proof.
I wonder if the 3.0 uses these plastic tappet guide thingeys?