engines from different eras

[mischa]

Hello. I am interested in buying an engine for my car. my question is: what is the difference between buying a, let's say 350, from 1969, than a 350 from a 1982 camaro? i hope my example works out with what i'm trying to ask.

i know that manufacturers peaked their engine performances around 1970, and from then on the engines were detuned. does this mean i should look for an engine that is from the high performance era for that particular enigne?

for another example, a 440 in a charger in 1968 would be considered a good performance engine. but does a 440 in a dodge van in late 70s or 80s have the same capabilities as a 440 from a charger in '68?

if this isn't a clear question i can help try to define what i'm trying to say. thanks.

[71Cnet]

there is a big performance diference. like for your example of the 440, fyi they stopped making tthe 440 in 77, the compression ratio was dropped big time. in 68 it was 10:1 and in 74 it was 8.2:1.also you have to think about the emissions systems that were starting to be installed. another fyi in the late 70's you could only get the 440 in trucks and some cop cars. so if you think of the difference between a 69 350 and a 82 350 it is just as bad if not worse. you also have to think about the machining differences like the heads, the valve sizes, the cam size there is alot that is different between the years. to help you further here is a page with the 440 info. http://www.lhmopars.com/engines.htm since your trying to buy an engine a couple of questions have to be asked. is it going to be a crate engine or out of anthor vehicle? if out of a vehilce are you going to rebuild or just throw in? if your rebuilding it the year of the engine matters to the point of cappabilites of the year block and heads. if its crate you can are you getting a long or short block? i could keep going but i think i answered your question already.

[MrPbody]

Mischa, don't make the mistake of buying the crap about "you can't make a Pontiac run, you MUST use a Chevy". If you do, in a car as heavy as that Tempest, you'll get your doors handed to you nearly every time you run against a similar car with either BBC or a Pontiac (400 or bigger). This is especially true with streetable cars.
Or are you considering a 350 Pontiac? I recommend against it, as it does not respond to high performance modifications as well as the 350 Chevy, or the 400 Pontiac. Internal geometry is completely different. A 350 Pontiac is NOT the same as a 350 Chevy (or Buick, OR Olds..).
A '69 350 Chevy was available anywhere from 220 (2-bbl) horsepower to 370. These are "gross" numbers, not to be confused with the later rating of "net" numbers. Rule of thumb is to multiply "net" numbers by 1.2 to get "gross" numbers. Of course, you can go the other direction, too. An '82 350 Chevy is useless as delivered, from a performance point of view. The heads, cam and induction MUST be modified to gain anything from it.
The '71 model year is the "line in the sand" for performance engines, with only a couple of notable exceptions, until the late '90s when LS-1 came around. That was the year ('71) when the government mandate for use of "regular" fuel was implemented. The result was horsepower falling off the table for years to come.
The 440 question is valid, but there's an important point missed. The earlier 440s with higher compression and more aggressive cams, were for high performance, period. The later (and earlier low compression) version is for trucks and full-sized cars. The power output and RPM range are aimed at a completely different purpose. Don't confuse power for trucks with power for hot rods...

[Mr. Horsepower]

On your 350 question. A 350 block is a 350 block. The casting is the same. On the newer 350 the Heads cc's are probably not as effective so your compression will be lower than that of lets say a 69 block. You can change all that yourself. For the block though it is the same thing. If you change the internals you can make the engine anything you want it to be. Dont get all caught up in the 2 bolt main and 4 bolt main arguements. Either one is good plus a 2 bolt is usually cheaper to buy. The 80's block would be just fine to build.

[MrPbody]

Mr. Horsepower, at the risk of opening an arguement, I must disagree. First, that all the 350s are the same. The pre-79 blocks are a bit "harder", containing a higher amount of nickel alloy. Some of the "performance" blocks are said to have even more.
The distick tube installs on the driver's side (left) up to '76. After that, it was on the other side (exceptions here and there, but in general...). There are factory "warranty" blocks with the tube provision on BOTH sides.
Also, for a stroker, a 4-bolt is highly recommended. Considering the majority of early (pre-77) blocks are 4-bolts, it would be prudent to get one. We have seen main bearing issues with nos. 2 and 4, when 2-bolt blocks were used, and the engine was used in a performance application.
We have also seen significant problems with the cast steel cranks out there, on nos. 2 and 4. We suggest either the factory 400 nodular crank be turned down to fit, or go with a high quality forged steel crank. These have shown to live in an engine designed to make power.

[soxs]

There goes pbody forcing his opionion on everbody else. If you ran a mopar you dont need 4 bolt mains they are for 600hp and constant 8000 rpms. Maybe in a GM product which probably would blow up....Tool!

[MrPbody]

No forcing here, Soxs, just observations over several years of experience.

Wasn't it you that insisted I only post when I have something constructive to add?

[jonnyboy9012]

In response to soxs post, i have never seen a factory 2 bolt block that cant turn 8000 rpms, maybe you will take me for a ride in your dodge dart and bring it up to 8000 rpms, i would really love to hear what that sounds like. For one, the opinon that a GM product will blow up if you bring it to 8000 rpms is extremely biased, if you want some proof ask redneck383, he has a freind that has a GM 454 turning 9 grand, now if it is a GM shouldnt it of blown up before it could turn 9 grand. And also i would take Mr.pbody's word for gold if i where you, he is a engine machinist for christ sake. So when will you be picking me up in this dodge dart of yours?.

[soxs]

I said, or meant to say, 4 bolt mains were only required for units running over 600hp and turning 8000 rpms for an extended period of time such as road racing or oval...A street/strip does not need 4 bolt mains to survive...except your bowtie units.

[jonnyboy9012]

Oh thats what you meant to say. Well my bowtie unit 402 is in and it is still running strong, and guess what the kicker is, yup thats right its a 2 bolt main. Its not like there is any difference between the iron that a mopar block is made with and the iron a chevy block is made with, other then the nickel alloy content all the blocks are the same. I think you are just angry at chevy because the engines cost less then your mopar, or have you got your ass handed to you by a chevy?. You should love all muscle cars, i dont have a biased toward any one. But yes i own a chevy.

[soxs]

My ass was handed to me a few times back in 70' but not by any bowtie unit, when i had a 69 350 SS camaro....and it was first of all beaten real bad by a 70 340 Duster, then about two weeks later a 70 340 swinger schooled me....Now i have a 69 340 Swinger.
As far as 4 bolt mains they are overrated at least in mopars. I do happen to have a bit of bias. I remember when the mopars came out in in the 70s and all the chebby and fird guys were laughing...didnt take long for me to see the light. Mind you i'll take any american muslce over rice anyday. I'm just an old fart that went through the muscle cars wars and it was great. As for pbody i still call BS on his goat.

[soxs]

Well so far i have found two mopars that wind it over 8 grand with 2 bolts johnboy...oddly enough ones handle is PBody....the real one. Not bad for 10 minutes of lookin.

[jonnyboy9012]

I dont know, maybe you had a bad experience with chevy because you couldnt or didnt know how to tune it. The one reason i like chevy and choose to buy it is because the engines in them are really cheap to build, and you can get insane horsepower numbers for very little cash.

[soxs]

Did you read my post????....Your reply is typical knot head shit. You said there is no way a factory block can spin 8000 and live with 2 bolt mains. Your dead wrong buckwheat. But you keep going with the flow, dont ever dare to be different.

[MR P BODY]

I have no problems spinning my 340 base 395 ci to 8200 on every pass
and its been doing it for 7 years now