Turns over but wont start!!!

[dmorlow]

I just want to have everybody’s consensus. I drove my car home last night and the car ran great. I went out to my car this morning and it won't start. It turns over. The battery is fully charged and it is turning over good. I don't smell gas so I am sure it is not flooding or that I don't have spark or anything like that. There is no smell of gas what so ever. So I am pretty sure it has to be something to do with the fuel system. I took off the fuel line that goes from the tank to the engine, turned over the engine, and no gas came out at all. But is there anything other than the fuel pump that could cause this? Maybe a sensor that went bad that is not telling the car to send gas? I just want to make sure there is nothing else that could make the car not get gas other than the fuel pump. The pump is $300 and I don't want to throw that away!!!

[Isnibs]

Have you checked the Fuel Pump Fuse??

[Rezarecter]

The fuel pump fuse in my car blew like 3 days after I bought it. My dad flipped out on my saying i never should have bought the car, because he thought it was a dead fuel pump. It felt good to see it was just the fuse, and that I bought the car and it still works 6 months later.

That is all.

[dmorlow]

I will be really mad (or happy... I don't know) if that is it. I never thought about checking that. I already ordered a new fuel pump. Had to order it through the mail seeing I can't find anyone that sells an AC Delco fuel pump locally. Hopefully they take it back if this is it.

[dmorlow]

Ok, now I am looking at a flow chart for troubleshooting a car that doesn't start that turns over in the manual for my car. One thing it says is to remove the fuel relay and replace it with a "fused b+." I take it that it has to have the same connector as the relay. After that, it has you do some tests with this "fused b+" in place of the fuel relay. But does anyone know what a "fused b+" is?

[Retro-D]

Originally Posted by dmorlow

Ok, now I am looking at a flow chart for troubleshooting a car that doesn't start that turns over in the manual for my car. One thing it says is to remove the fuel relay and replace it with a "fused b+." I take it that it has to have the same connector as the relay. After that, it has you do some tests with this "fused b+" in place of the fuel relay. But does anyone know what a "fused b+" is?

"Fused B+" would be a piece of wire with an inline 15 amp fuse connected to the battery positive terminal. If you are looking at the instructions on page 6E3-A-83 they are saying to connect fused B+ lead to terminal 87. If you look at the schematic what this does is bypass the relay and feeds power direct to the fuel pump. They advise to remove the gas cap and listen to hear if the pump is running when energized....okay?

RD

[dmorlow]

How in the world do they expect for you to know that a "fused b+" equals a 15 amp fuse? I don't see it anywhere in the book saying that the fused b+ equals 15 amps. Where did you figure it out?

[Retro-D]

Originally Posted by dmorlow

How in the world do they expect for you to know that a "fused b+" equals a 15 amp fuse? I don't see it anywhere in the book saying that the fused b+ equals 15 amps. Where did you figure it out?

Consider who created the books. The factory books were written for people who had some degree of factory or formal training. The geek term "B+" was commonly used in early radio and electronics and in this case denotes 'battery plus'. Anyway, I have decoded the passage for you so you can proceed with your testing.
PS: The 15 amp fuse came from reading the schematic diagram, same value the factory uses...
Good Luck,

RD

[dmorlow]

Well, an update. The fuse isn't blown. And, just to be on the safe side, I replaced the fuel relay. Didn't help. So I'm pretty sure it's the fuel pump. I ordered it a few days ago and should be here sometime next week. (I still can't believe that one one locally stocks these fuel pumps.)

[Retro-D]

Originally Posted by dmorlow

Well, an update. The fuse isn't blown. And, just to be on the safe side, I replaced the fuel relay. Didn't help. So I'm pretty sure it's the fuel pump. I ordered it a few days ago and should be here sometime next week. (I still can't believe that one one locally stocks these fuel pumps.)

If you follow the troubleshooting procedure and supply "fused B+" to terminal 87 and then listen for the pump you will know for sure if it runs or not. The relay you changed is controlled by the PCM and may not be activating, I would exhaust all possibilities before changing out the pump. Once you know the pump is running put a fuel pressure gage on the rail (under the engine cover) and check the pressure.

RD

[dmorlow]

According to the flow chart in the GM manual, if the relay is good (which it is for sure because it is brand new now), the only other thing to test is right at the fuel pump. And that test is to check for any kind of opens in the circuit, which I can't do until the gas tank is off. But I highly doubt that is the issue. But there is no spot inside the engine to connect a pressure guage on this engine. I took off the engine cover. There may have been one at one time, but I just had that recall done where they put all new gas lines from the fuel rail all the way back to the gas tank. There is no connector there anymore to check the fuel pressure. But I did take the gas line off and turn over the car and no gas came out, so I feel pretty confident that the fuel system is not working. But how would I test the PCM anyway?

[dmorlow]

I guess the more I think about it, if the relay that I replaced was good, then by replacing it, I ruled out nothing. Then it could be a computer or something else in the car somewhere. So does anyone know how I could go about doing more tests? The part I don't understand about applying a fused b+ to terminal 87 is there has to be two contacts that I have to put the fuse to. So what two terminals do I apply it to? 87 and what? Is the other one ground? Or is it something else?

[Retro-D]

Originally Posted by dmorlow

I guess the more I think about it, if the relay that I replaced was good, then by replacing it, I ruled out nothing. Then it could be a computer or something else in the car somewhere. So does anyone know how I could go about doing more tests? The part I don't understand about applying a fused b+ to terminal 87 is there has to be two contacts that I have to put the fuse to. So what two terminals do I apply it to? 87 and what? Is the other one ground? Or is it something else?

Yes, I see the light bulb over your head is coming on, changing the relay doesn't mean much at this point. The fused B+ lead is a simple piece of wire with a 15 amp fuse connected in series with the wire. Connect one end to the battery in your car (positive terminal). The other end of the lead goes to terminal 87. Be sure to unplug the relay during this test. Once this is done you are bypassing the PCM and relay, you will be feeding 12 volts directly to the pump via your 'b+' test lead. Remove the gas cap and listen to hear if the pump is running.

PS: Picture link to what a fuse b+ lead will look like:
http://www.holtallen.com/im/Q897.jpg

RD

[dmorlow]

Ok, I just did the test. I ran one side of the fuse straight to the positive terminal of the battery and the other side straight to terminal 87, opened up the gas cap and listened and I heard nothing. So the next step in the flow chart is to disconnect the connector at the fuel pump and run another test to see if there's a short in the circuit between the relay and the pump. But I am not going to do that until I have the fuel pump in hand. So that won't be until next weekend.

[Retro-D]

Originally Posted by dmorlow

Ok, I just did the test. I ran one side of the fuse straight to the positive terminal of the battery and the other side straight to terminal 87, opened up the gas cap and listened and I heard nothing. So the next step in the flow chart is to disconnect the connector at the fuel pump and run another test to see if there's a short in the circuit between the relay and the pump. But I am not going to do that until I have the fuel pump in hand. So that won't be until next weekend.

If the new pump won't run when you plug it in then it's the wiring from the relay to the pump, or a bad ground connection from the pump to the chassis.

Good Luck,

RD