It's the end of the world as we know it, and stupidity is to blame.

[2strokebloke]

Think about this, the world's population has doubled in the past thirty years, and if it keeps growing at the present rate, it will double again in less than thirty years. We're already stretching our natural resources thin, and on the brink of pushing the environment past it's breaking point.
And wonder of wonders, stupidity is largely to blame.
The myths, morals and superstitions that existed prior to the industrial revolution simply have no place in the modern world. We could either get rid of technology, and let a few billion die of diseases and starvation like they would have 80 years ago had they lived then, or we could use logic and common sense and bring the explosive population growth under control.
Here's some of the myths I'm talking about that are perpetuated by religions and society that just don't make sense for today's world.
1: To be a childless women is a curse. Nonsense, in the present there's no need to have alot of children (or even any at all) to help you plow the field, milk the cow, and wash the clothes. Perhaps more appropriate would be that the women who has more than two children is cursed.
2: Having alot of children is a sign of a man's virility. Having alot of children is rather a stupid idea, because children are much less likely to die as infants today than they ever were in the past, to believe that you'd need to have many children to ensure your family line continues, is a foolish and ignorant idea.
3: Contraceptives are evil. They're not.
4: masterbation and homosexuality are evil. They're not either.

Despite the obvious situation we're in, the belief that a large family is a blessing continues. The idea that sex is only for procreation isn't helping either, people can have their fun and not risk bringing another life to the world.
As if these old myths and superstition that only help the population problem weren't bad enough, there's plenty of ignorance and stupidity elsewhere that are going to help give industry the final blow in a few more decades. Can you imagine what the world would be like with 12 billion people and and not enough natural resouces left to keep the fed and healthy?
The oil companies are confident that they'll have oil for many, many decades, despite the fact that we're using more and more every day, and having less and less to pump out of the ground. They have no backup plan, and don't like to think about the truth of the situation.
And for that matter, the majority of their followers and customers have no idea what they're going to do either.
And stupidity prevails, nobody thinks about the future, they seem to be in a hurry to waste as much oil as possible, and usually it's these people who carry an attitude of "it's Gods will" they only think this because they're cowards who don't want to take responsibility for their action, and usually also older, and will be dead in three decades anyway when the shit hits the fan.
So we're nearing the top of the S curve folks, a first in human history. I don't think there's anyway of stopping it now, we should have been thinking smarter 30 years ago. All I can say is that what happens in fifty to sixty years shall be very interesting (and potentially horrifying) and we have only the stupid, ignorant, and shortsighted to blame.

[2Slow4U_Noob]

That's very true. It is scary the direction the world is going in now although I'm sure a lot of people will say that people have been saying things like this for a long time. I think the things you said are true, but there are other factors as well. Like thanks to science people are living a lot longer now a days. It's also become more "socially acceptable" to become young mothers. And you have to also take into consideration that its natural for the population to grow (although it seems to be growing way too fast). I'm not sure whats going to happen. I'm assuming we're going to have to switch to solar, electric, hyrdrogen, nuclear, anti-matter, or some other source of power. It's happened before. How many steam boats or horse carrages do you see now a days. I think the same will be true for food. All our food will probably be genetically engineered. Instead of breeding animals we will probably cloan them. Instead of farms we will have production plants where vegetables will be produced. *Sigh* it's all depressing

[YogsVR4]

Chicken Little, is that you?

The same doom and gloom story about over population. The one thing to note is its third world countries that are experiencing the population growth. In all countries that have more advanced economies, the population of the natives is barely sustained or in the case of some European countries - its actually contracting. Most first class economies have population increase is via immigration.

I'm sure the folks doing these same dire predictions back in the 1700s were sure of themselves. As were the naysayers in the 1800s. The 1900s have them coming out of the woodwork. Yes - not a single one of these predictions has come to pass or been close to accurate.

I remember the 1970s when the people 'in the know' said we'd be out of oil by the 1990s. Several years ago, Scientific American sounded the alarm that by 2003 world oil production would peek. It did not and it wasn't even close. The track record being run on is pretty weak.

[2strokebloke]

The truth of the matter is that for most of mankinds history the population growth has been exceptionally minimal, the black plague nearly killed half of the worlds population, if the same ammount of people died today, it'd make barely a dent in our population. Just before 1900, was when the population began to grow exponentially, advances in healthcare meant people lived longer, less people died during childbirth, and the infant mortality rated dropped dramatically. Advances in agriculture meant that a larger population could be fed, and thinking that had suddenly become outated and obsolete was still in healthy supply, having six or eight children was still very common.
The problem with your thinking yogs, is that it doesn't make sense. Say your driving an old volkswagen, which doesn't have a gas gauge, so you never know how much fuel you have left. It would be logical to assume the longer, farther, and faster you drive, the closer and closer you're going to get to having an empty tank. Your logic seems to be "if it hasn't happened yet, it's never going to happen" you'd be in for a shock if you thought you could drive forever, just because you covered the last 300 miles with no problem, and suddenly what hasn't happened before (and therefore must not be able to happen) does happen. Have fun walking to next gas station.

[lazysmurff]

what was the quote...

there are only two things that are infinite. the universe and human stupidity. and im not so sure about the former.

i think thats it

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

The problem with your thinking yogs, is that it doesn't make sense. Say your driving an old volkswagen, which doesn't have a gas gauge, so you never know how much fuel you have left. It would be logical to assume the longer, farther, and faster you drive, the closer and closer you're going to get to having an empty tank. Your logic seems to be "if it hasn't happened yet, it's never going to happen" you'd be in for a shock if you thought you could drive forever, just because you covered the last 300 miles with no problem, and suddenly what hasn't happened before (and therefore must not be able to happen) does happen. Have fun walking to next gas station.

That was a very weak analogy. Noplace did I say that its never going to happen. I do say that every prediction to date has been wrong and you've offered nothing to support why yours will be right.

I don't have to prove you the negative.

[dirtydx]

That's great you see humanity as stupidity. Sorry if my overpopulating your planet takes your precious automobile away.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by dirtydx

That's great you see humanity as stupidity. Sorry if my overpopulating your planet takes your precious automobile away.

it has nothing to do with cars. it has to do with sustainability. fuck cars man, id be fine getting around on a bicycle. but try shipping anything substantial without trucks. try getting cargo overseas without planes and ocean liners. and then lets not forget all the great things petoleum goes into....like plastics.

this is more than cars and gas prices man. i think you need to realize that.

[2strokebloke]

I do say that every prediction to date has been wrong and you've offered nothing to support why yours will be right.

I offered plenty, the population has doubled in the past thrity years, and if it keeps growing at the rate it does now it will double again in less than 30 years. That's 12 billion people with less natural resources than we have now, but needing more resources than we have now.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens when you need something you can't get. (but the answer for all you non geniuses out there, is that you don't get what you need).

I don't have to prove you the negative.

I never asked for you to prove anything.

[dirtydx]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

it has nothing to do with cars. it has to do with sustainability. fuck cars man, id be fine getting around on a bicycle. but try shipping anything substantial without trucks. try getting cargo overseas without planes and ocean liners. and then lets not forget all the great things petoleum goes into....like plastics.

this is more than cars and gas prices man. i think you need to realize that.

I couldn't agree any more. We rely on what will eventually destroy our planet.

Hey lazysmurff, have u checked the "Experiencing Death" thread lately? complete LOL

[eversio11]

You know what we could use? A nice plague.

[carnut]

Unfortunately, most people don't think of the consequences of reproducing exponentially, therefore it carries on to the next generation. You are right, the planet can only support so many people before we become extinct. A case in point is that there is only so much water on the planet, without it life would cease to exist if we consume all of it. Oh well, off to work............

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

I offered plenty, the population has doubled in the past thrity years, and if it keeps growing at the rate it does now it will double again in less than 30 years. That's 12 billion people with less natural resources than we have now, but needing more resources than we have now.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens when you need something you can't get. (but the answer for

Yes, the population doubled, but the rate of growth has declined. If you look at the projections, there will not be 12 billion people here in thirty years.

The following from http://www.chem.brown.edu/chem12/un%...opulation.html

According to the medium-fertility scenario, which assumes fertility will stabilize at replacement levels of slightly above two children per woman , the world population will grow from 5.7 billion persons in 1995 to 9.4 billion in 2050, 10.4 billion in 2100, and 10.8 billion by 2150, and will stabilize at slightly under 11 billion persons around 2200.

Read http://www.un.org/esa/population/pub...ve/chart/3.pdf for what the UN commision (I know I don't trust them either) has to say.

There are other sources, but you can google as well as I can.

You've offered nothing to indicate that the amount of natural resources we have will not be able to support the population in 30 year or 300 years. The fact that more people will need more resources does not mean that the resources will be insufficient. Renewable sources are still abundant and many sources are untapped. Fossil fuels have trillions of barrels in reserves that we know of. A few hundred years worth at the projected population and usage rates. That does not include shale oil that is a bit more expensive to get at but has trillions of barrels as well. If oil prices were to rise to 75 a barrel or so, it would be economically feasable to get the shale oil.

Perhaps you can argue about the cost that the resources will be. Supply and demand will drive the price up by as much as double, but at that point, the available supply will flatten the curve and have the better part of a several centuries of known reserves.

[2strokebloke]

Unfortunately my browser quit while I was typing a reply to your post Yogs, so I'll shorten my post.
The UN information (you sourcing information from them, of all people) you posted is only a hypothesis (but I guess their guess is as good as anybody's) And a rather conservative guess at that, assuming of course that the rate we reproduce now drops significantly in the next 50 years - however the growth rate is falling very slowly compared to population growth, it's possible that the population won't be 12 billion in 2030, but even the U.N's guesses admit that it could be over 11 billion by 2050.
The real question then is about the natural resources, in the countries where the population is growing fastest, the infrastructure in many cases can barely support the ammount of people living there now - so we'll see what grows faster the population, or the infastructure that would be capable of supporting that population. I'm betting the growth of people will outpace the growth of the infrastructure that would allow them to use their natural resources.
The U.N. guess that the population's growth will slow dratically is as good as the guess that the population will continue to grow at the same rate it is now.

That does not include shale oil that is a bit more expensive to get at but has trillions of barrels as well. If oil prices were to rise to 75 a barrel or so, it would be economically feasable to get the shale oil.

That probably won't be the case, unless people in the future are unbelievably stupid. There are better alternatives for fuel, that are cheaper and easier to produce than attempting to extract oil from oil shale. Of course oil is far too useful to just be burned like rubbish (although we do it everyday, in startling ammounts) so there may be future in oil shale, but not as fuel - unless of course we're really stupid.

[YogsVR4]

Don't get me wrong. If alternate fuel sources become available there is no reason for them not to be used. However, that has no bearing on the amount of resources that are available for todays technology.