2000 Buick Regal Transmission

[irbf]

I purchased a 2000 Buick Regal with the SC 3.8L engine about six months ago. The car was/is immaculate and had 30K miles on it. About three months ago the transmission started slipping 1st to 2nd. I started reading this forum and learned about the adaptive behavior of the transmission as described by "Flatrater" (much thanks). From this it was clear that the computer was detecting the slip, increasing the pressure and with no improvement the PCM would command maximum line pressure. Driving you would first detect the slip then the "clunk" as the transmission shifted and line pressure was at maximum.

I took the car to a trusted transmission shop and they initially thought that changing the PCS solenoid would solve the problem. However when the pan was removed severe damage to the transmission was discovered. The transmission was rebuilt with the following new parts:

- torque converter
- lsk w/borg (whatever that is)
- 4th hub/shaft
- input sun gear
- input planetary
- carrier reaction
- epc solenoid
- input speed sensor
- shift kit

When the car was returned to service it shifted fine and as the PCM learned the new TAP values it shifted even better. However three weeks after repair it started to slip again - only when cold.

The car was returned to the shop and the valve body retorqued. Once again the car shifted beautifully until after about three weeks it once again started slipping - only when cold and bad enough that the line pressure once again was commanded to maximum.

The transmission was removed for a second time. The shop found damage already to the forward clutches and they were replaced. Another suspect "defective GM part" was replaced, transmission reassembled and reinstalled. Same problem...no luck.

As the technicians continued to troubleshoot they attached guages to the transmission to measure pressure. No pressure was measured to the forward clutches with the car running (not completely sure of the explanation). Loose battery terminals (and corrosion) were discovered and fixed resulting in the pressure that should have been measured. It was assumed this was the problem and the car returned to me.

The very next morning, once again the transmission was slipping.

The shop has ordered a new GM transmission at their expense as I assume they are at the end of their rope.

This car has spent at least a month in the transmission shop. Perhaps that is why it had low miles!

Any idea / information would be greatly appreciated by myself and I am sure the shop. A significant clue is that when the transmission started to slip, it only did this when cold. As soon as it was warm, the symptoms would disappear. Of course over time it got bad enough that the shift pressure was commanded to maximum.

[tman]

I hate that you had to go through all of this, but at least you're getting a brand new tranny now. How much has this cost you?

[irbf]

The cost to me so far has exceeded $2200. This was money originally intended for daughters next semester at college...ouch!!

My wife really likes the car. It handles well, has plenty of power, looks nice and is comfortable. Just hope that we can get past this and experience a great car into the future.

With regard to the performance shift feature...we never use it. Traction control thank goodness I have had no need for (yet) and I do not believe (know) it lowers like an old Citroen. My wife drives the car to school where she teaches and I'm sure takes it easy at about 45mph the entire way. At least as long as we have had it, we have taken very good care of it.

[tman]

Performance shift changes the shift points of the transmission to achieve better all around acceleration.

Traction control is designed to add traction when it detects wheelspin, by limiting power to the spinning wheel/wheels. When it snows, in a parking lot, floor it once with TC and once without. You'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Century 2000]

Holy S$*@, $2,200 on the transmission for a car with 30,000 miles! I would be livid. Did any of this fall under any kind of warranty? And still problems.

Well, no surprise, really -- your car has the 4T65E automatic transmission. My car has the same problems, and since I joined this board it's apparent that many other people who own vehicles with this transmission are having the same problems. My car had the PC Solenoid valve replaced, but the transmission still shifts harsh/shudders...but it is when the car is warmed up. Many others with this transmission report that most problems are when the car is warm...that's what throws me off with yours. Maybe the fact that your car has the SC has something to do with it?

Hopefully the new transmission will be it. From my time on these boards, it seems that there is no "cure all" to the problems that the 4T65E exhibits. In fact, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that most of the problems with these transmissions are simply due to the fact that GM did a terrible job of engineering them, and thus "fixing" them is problematic.

It's hard to say what you should do from here. You could get rid of the car, but Buick's have abhorrant resale value, which could really hurt you. You could just keep it and hope that the new tranny doesn't act up. Personally I bought an extended warranty for my Century (which has really come in handy!) and plan to keep the car until that warranty expires. Then I will dump it and never buy another GM product. Good luck, and let us know how the new transmission works out.

[irbf]

The fire breathing temptress is back on the road with a NEW GM transmission. We have been driving it now for six weeks without incident. I hope this is the end of the trauma.

There are a couple points to be made out of this incident and the reply message:

1.) I found it interesting that more than one person hearing of the incident proceeded (as expected) to tell me that I should have purchased a Lexus or Toyota. It was also interesting to hear in the same conversation where they had spent as much as I had, on a transmission, having the brakes repaired or rack-in-pinion replaced or other "common" squawks. Hmmm...unhappy about the transmission incident but no thanks, if I need brake or steering work completed, I can handle that in my garage.

2.) Yes Buicks have abhorrant resale value (as most cars do). There is an opportunity in this...to all you NEW Park Avenue, Lesabre and Regal purchasers, thank-you...thank-you...thank-you! To others, treat yourself to a two year old Park Avenue that someone else has taken a depreciation beating on (hope they were able to write it off...). A few years ago I purchased used a Suburban that sold new for $47K. It is diesel, 4WD, Michelins, has all the options and at three years old it was obtained for $18K. Run the math...does'nt take a rocket scientist.

3.) With regard to GM and their responsibility in this event, the old transmission is undergoing an autopsy. I want to be fair; I purchased this car used and do not know how it was treated. However, working for a tier one supplier, as an engineer, I can assure you I have access to the tools and people to get to the bottom of the problem. If the fault lies with GM, I will provide the evidence and expect that they make good on the transmission...

So...in conclusion look for a good deal on a used Buick of your dreams and enjoy it...if you spend a couple grand on a repair, too bad but take solace that at least your not the poor sap paying that for "common" repairs to a more "reliable" car and someone else took the depreciation beating.

P.S. With regard to the "clunk" when the engine/transmission is warm, it sounds like the torque converter locking as it normally does. I hear the same clunk and think that it could be reduced through design. I wonder if you do not have a bad engine mount...

[filipg]

"Yes Buicks have abhorrant resale value (as most cars do)" - I completely agree. I buy used, low-milage cars and set aside a comfy emergency fund (say $2k in a money-market). Last car I didn't spend it (Saturn SL2), this time I need a tranny R&R for $2400... but I got the car for $8K cash 1.5 years ago - 2001 Buick century with 16K miles. Perfect shape. Thank-you-thank-you. My wife likes the "boat" ride

Imagine leasing something new and a) taking the butt-kicking on the depreciation b) having major repairs like me except also needing to pay a montly payment and c) wasting huge amounts of your earning power on financial costs. A new car is NEVER a good idea - especially for folks without money-skills who live paycheck-to-paycheck.

For an example, see this poor soul:
http://www.gm-v6lemons.com/

He was $11K in "upside-down" in his fleece, had to pay ~$420 a month, and his "new" car STILL died. And then he "had to" file for Chapter 7!

Hehehe. I let the previous guy take the butt-kicking. The $2K emergency fund is cheap price to pay for the peace of mind!

<Portion removed by tman2093 due to advertising, which is not permitted here unless given permission by the admins here at AF>

Cheers,
Fil

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by Century 2000

Did any of this fall under any kind of warranty? And still problems.

I am wondering why people with a 5 model year old used car think that GM should pay for a repair? The warranty on GM cars and trucks is 3 years 36K miles which ever comes first. The PCM and cat convertor is 8 years 80K miles.

This always puzzles me. People with a problem in the car expect everything to be free no matter how many years or miles on on the car. I have dealt with car owners bringing their 10 year old car into the shop wondering why we don't fix it for free. I have seen people break shit on their car and wonder why it isn't fixed for free. I have seen people alter their cars and it causes problems yet they want it fixed for free. The warranty is for defects in material and workmanship not abuse, use or alteration. I hear daily about this breaking or that breaking on my 7 year old car and it should be a recall fixed for free. I have dealt with people that never changed their oil in 2 years wondering why the engine blew apart and that it should be fixed for free. Truthfully I don't understand car owners most of the time.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by irbf

2.) Yes Buicks have abhorrant resale value (as most cars do). There is an opportunity in this...to all you NEW Park Avenue, Lesabre and Regal purchasers, thank-you...thank-you...thank-you! To others, treat yourself to a two year old Park Avenue that someone else has taken a depreciation beating on (hope they were able to write it off...). A few years ago I purchased used a Suburban that sold new for $47K. It is diesel, 4WD, Michelins, has all the options and at three years old it was obtained for $18K. Run the math...does'nt take a rocket scientist.

I too buy used cars. Right now I just brought a used 2004 Montana which I paid 13K for brand new it would cost 30K.

But I will let you in on a secret. If you buy a NEW GM car or truck and you do all of your service work at the dealership GM will be willing to do warranty work on your car or truck for up to 10 years and 100K miles. All you have to do is make one phone call to GM. Used cars and trucks only get 3 years and 36K miles, after that you are on your own. GM rewards customer loyalty.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by filipg

"Yes Buicks have abhorrant resale value (as most cars do)" - I completely agree.

Compared to Japanese cars in a similar class thats probably true. However, compared to a similar domestic model car such as a Ford Taurus or Dodge Intrepid, etc. or its GM "W" body counterparts the Buicks hold up quite well in resale value, if not better.

[irbf]

It has been some time since I viewed this forum. The Regal transmission is doing fine so far with 22K on it. With regard to warranties, I would not expect GM to replace an item or service the car free to replace a "life limited part". I would expect however that components (including the transmission), properly cared for, have reasonable "life" (in the case of a transmission certainly beyond 30K).

I take very good care of my cars changing the oil religously at 3K. We do not abuse them and they are garaged. They all get their "100 hour inspection" and when a squawk is noticed they visit GM for repair.

GM produces some very nice vehicles. I travel often and spend much time in rental cars. I prefer GM vehicles. I am particularly impressed with the Malibu and Trailblazer. I am impressed with the design, safety features, comfort, they handle well and appear to be of good quality. One can only hope that the design is robust enough that they are relatively trouble free during the first 100K.