1994 Buick starting problem $$$ and not fixed!

[acrufoxie]

I've had my 1994 buick in several times to be serviced for the very same
problem, over and over again, and I'm tired of parts being replaced.

My buick when you try to start it, turns over just fine, sounds like it starts but as soon as you turn the key into where it should be while running, the engine just goes completely dead, basically it stays running
only long enough for a second or two after it starts before dying. I've had them do all sorts of computer tests, they said it was the passkey module, not more than one week after having the car repaired I was stranded at work and the car would not stay running. They took it in and it was a holiday weekend, by the time they looked at it, the problem mysteriously went away, and were happy to charge me another $100 for a problem they said was fixed.

I've had a host of problems with this car, around the time I started having this problem, I was driving along and the car completely lost all power, all readings and lights, literally the entire electrical system cut out then kicked back in again. They said it was a bad battery connection, but I find it a bit fishy a loose battery cable would cause the entire electrial system to die while the car is running. Ever since I've had this car, the battery light would stay on while the car was running sometimes it would go out for days then come back on again, and I've had the alternator replaced several times (3-4 times), as they keep burning out, also around the time I started having these problems, the cruise control won't kick in, it just kicks off as soon as it's engaged.

I've done some research on the car and apparently many buick lesabres from 1994 had faulty ecms but never did a recall. What is causing my car to not remain in a running state after being started?

I would really appreciate some help from somebody, anybody, I cannot afford to continue to have parts replaced on the car and paying labor costs for parts that do not need replacing.

Thank you.

[avatar307]

The PassKey system works not only by cutting power to fuel pump relay, but also by interupting the starter relay. If the PassKey module, the reisistor chip, or the contacts in the key way were bad, the car should not even turn over, let alone get gas.

Burning out 3-4 alternators sounds like a much more serious electrical problem. Have you replaced the battery? If the alternator output cable is damaged and causing a ground fault, the could blow your alternator. Shorting the positive output of an alternator to ground is pretty well the fastest way to fry the alternator and it's internal components.

If the battery is really bad, I expect it could allowing too much current to flow through it to ground. Or as the starter comes directly off the positive terminal, the main starter wire could be shorting to ground. In addition, the starter solinoid could be fried.

For the entire electrical system on the car to suddenly die, you basically have to disconnect the battery and alternator feeds simultaniously. Shorting the battery positive to ground is pretty well the same thing... along with damaging some things.

If all the wires are in good shape, I could see it being the starter, but I'm not at all sure about that. Just my opinion and guess for this particular 5 minutes.

I'm not sure of the faults present in the 1994 ECMs, but I expect they related to simple programming errors that cause the car to experience mysterious random problems. While this problem is mysterious, I don't think the ECM would kill the entire electrical system and then turn it back on... who knows though.

[piewagn]

The threaded portion on the pos. batt. terminal commonly corrodes & breaks away from the case. Grab the pos. batt cable & pull on it. This may release the lead "threaded plug" from the bat. case. If this happens, you've found your problem.

[acrufoxie]

Thanks for the information, I know have some ammunition to go in with when they argue about the passkey module. I've spent well over $700 and am no closer to fixing this.

It's just strange how the car starts effortlessly for weeks on end and them bam turns over fine gas is being fed to the motor as I smell the gas when I try starting it but it simply does not start, but if I let them take it in, mysteriously everything is working again when they look at it.

I never believed it was the passkey module, it seems these people are too clueless to diagnose it.

As for the battery, this car used to be my parents, they do not recall when the battery was replaced so there is a good chance that the battery is original to the car. After starting the car many times and the battery drained, when I got the car back the battery light never came on, but as the days passed the light came on more and more, now it's on most of the time.

[avatar307]

Sometimes batteries fail in response to certain conditions. Odds are they have been near failing for a long time, and then suddenly die all together right after being exposed to extra stress.

I have had several two year old batteries just completely die after a hard freeze. Similarly, draining a battery all the way down and then recharging it is really hard on them. They aren't designed to handle that, and it shortens their life span.

Have you had anyone test the battery or perform on on engine battery and alternator test?

[piewagn]

I'm pretty sure on that year LeSabre, there is a "double" cable coming off of the pos. post. There is a spacer between the two that corrodes severely. Along with the post breaking out of the case, this condition can wreak havoc on your electrical system. Unfortunately,SOME outside garages will just throw darts at a problem at the expence of the customer. I advise you to take it to the dealer in the future. I've seen this far too often. Don't fall for the propaganda that dealers are ripoffs. They are trained specifically by that manufacturuer, and, deal with these concerns on a daily basis. You may pay a little more per hour for labor, but, in the long run, you're not stuck paying 700 bucks for a repair, and, a vehicle with the same concern. Then, wind up taking it to the dealer anyway. Do you think they'll give you back your 700 bucks?

[avatar307]

I refuse to pay anyone, dealer or otherwise, $80/hour to look for the problem with my car. With a little reading, thinking, and tools you can repair just about everything yourself. I will never take a car to a mechanic, if the car is bad enough shape that I cannot repair it, it's time to buy a new car.

The only mechanics I have ever let touch my car are ones who are willing to talk to me about the problem before they start charging me. People who have an idea what the problem is and are willing to either confirm the problem or quote me a flat price to repair it.

The best experience I've had was with the Midas shop here in Denton, TX. I needed my car aligned, and they quoted me the cheapest price. While sitting in the lobby waiting for them to complete the work, I overheard the service manager telling to another customer.

"I just talked with [Bill], he's my head mechanic and knows more about cars than anyone here. He said there's nothing wrong with your brakes, the pads are nearly new. I'd love to sell you a new set of brakes, but they honestly do not need replaced. The squeaking you're hearing is most likely just brake dust."

They didn't charge him for the time spent taking of the tires and looking at the pads, and they didn't install a new set of pads just because he asked for them. They told him straight up what they found, and he walked out of there without paying a cent. If more places operated like that, more places would have return customers.

You'll never have a dealer offer you a flat rate. The closet you will get is work performed under warrenty. I've never even got a dealership to quote me a price for a repair, or even admit they know what the problem is. Why? Because then I'd want to know if it's a problem I carn correct myself with an hour of work and $5 worth of parts.

I insist on standing in the garage area while they service the vehicle. I make that clear before I hand them the keys. I don't care about all the liability BS. Fact is, if the shop personnel know what they are doing and follow the established safety guidelines, there should be absolutely no risk.

Any establishment who can charge someone $75 for an oil change is not touching my car. I know far too many girls who pay regurally pay that to have the dealership change their oil. I've seen the reciepts. Not only that, but dealerships have a nasty habit of performing extra, unauthorized maintence and just charging you for it. (Like dumping 50 cents of graphite in your oil for an extra $20.)

It's the same with buying a car. The only way not to get ripped off is to take a loan out at your personal bank and tell the dealership "I will write you a check for this much, for that car, right now." Otherwise, you end up paying $700 for window etching (which you can buy a $5 mail order kit to do) and then GMAC misteriously changes your interest rate from 2% to 12% 6 months in.

I called the dealership a couple months ago. I told them exactly what happened, and asked them if they had an idea what was wrong. Nope, $80 before they know anything. Asked how long they expected it would take. No idea, $80 to find out. I was literally told that I had to pay them before they would tell me how much I was going to end up paying. Of course, by the time they tell me what it will cost, they'll have my tires off and a reason why I can't take my car and leave.

A few more questions and the conversation ended with "so you really have absolutely no clue what you're doing for there huh? Personally, that's not worth $80/hour to me."

[piewagn]

Well, I don't know what kind of dealerships you have in Texas. But, we tell our customers UP FRONT, before ANY repairs are performed. If we operated as you stated, we would not be in business!! Obviously you have more know how than the common consumer, that's all well & good.
Some people don't have that luxury.We take pride in our customer base & fair business practices. And, it would be a cold day in hell before we charged someone 80 bucks for an oil change. We get $19.95. A very competitive price. This is exactly the propaganda I was talking about. If you know someone who actually spent that much, shame on them, and the establishment who charged that amount. We actually state competitors prices along with our own & let the customer make his/her choice. By the way, our labor rate is 68 bucks an hour. It's actually lower than the local Pep Boys, Midas, Meineke, etc., who's labor rates are actually 74 bucks per hour. May the buyer beware. It never hurts to do some reseach before you agree to any price, from any shop.