one tyrant for another?

[TRD2000]

i just saw this and something occurred to me.

"We are determined to clean Falluja from the terrorists," Prime Minister Iyad Allawi told a news conference in Baghdad, adding that the U.S.-led operation had his authority.

OK so Sadam used the military to attack and kill Iraqis who opposed him, Now the new government is doing the same! it's generally hypothesised i suppose that this is a short term situation, and that once it is done things will settle down. But will it? Or is unseating sadam just going to put in place another government that resorts to the same tactics? Another thought is that, will this new Iraqi gov turn out like the Taliban, which the US also put in power? Will Iraq have to be invaded again in 20 years?

the way Sadam ruled was brutal. But will the new way be any better? Will we find that his methods were the only way?

[TRD2000]

"May they go to hell," shouted the soldiers. "To hell they will go," Allawi replied.

top guy.

[YogsVR4]

You're right. We should never see a change in any countries leader. You never know, they could be worse. I say, bring back Stalin! Dead or not, that guy could get the job done.

[TRD2000]

it was just a thought.... perhaps your right, we shouldn't think....

[-Josh-]

That's right, unless you get paid to think...why should you??

Seriously though, a lot of troops are gonna die in this upcoming battle at Fallujah, they established their base this morning in a raid and supposedly when they cross the river they will hit very heavy resistance...Hell it's probably going on as i type this.

[taranaki]

So what is the long term plan for Iraq? clearly there are always going to be warring factions among the community.Removing Saddam has opened a can of worms, and a new struggle for power is inevitable.Iraq is currently far too bitterly divided to carry out democratic free elections.Is the occupation going to carry on indefinitely to protect the puppet government and commercial interests?

[TRD2000]

and if it doesn't? what happens if the government does something that the US doesn't like? another invasion? the government toppled again?

[taranaki]

We can hypothesise all we like about the future.....

What if we were to have another OPEC inspired ooil crisis?Would the present administration try to resolve that forcibly too?

What is not hypothetical is that America has occupied a foreign nation, deposed its leader, installed its own choice of government and is currently killing those who disagree in Fallujah.

[Murco]

Originally Posted by taranaki

America has occupied a foreign nation, deposed its leader, installed its own choice of government and is currently killing those who disagree in Fallujah.

It could be worse! We could be killing those who disagree everywhere!!

J/K

[TRD2000]

Hitler never got to that bit either....

[fredjacksonsan]

I think that Iraq should be allowed to have the government that it wants to. Yes, there may be another dictator and people may suffer. Forcing them to adopt our form of government may work while we're there, but not for long afterwards. A friend of mine is from the region, he says that the US Government doesn't understand the Arab mind and that no matter who is in power, they will have to be a very strong and possibly dictatorial leader, because you can't show weakness or your underlings have no respect for you and you get killed. He also believes that they will never stop fighting to get us out, and that once we're out they will fight among themselves until one rises supreme to rule the country.

[TRD2000]

thats what i was afraid of.

I don't mean to sound racist or religionist or culturalist or whatever. But it strikes me that there has been war there for thousands of years and it may be naive to think that it can suddenly end. Particularly by interfering and displacing what little stability existed in the region. Perhaps these people are just not able to settle into western culture and political systems. I KNOW people will disagree, i KNOW this is a horrible thing to say. But perhaps Sadam in the end will have been a good option. I am NOT saying "we are better than them" or that "they deserve to suffer" or any such rubbish. Just that when there has been continual war somewhere for that long perhaps brutal measures are all that can get stability. To be honest Uday and Qusay, to me, are worse than Sadam. There were schools, public services, zoos, museums, all sorts of stuff that i dont think would have been possible in a state of war. And as it turned out when the US brought war back there all those things got destroyed, at least some kids are back to school now. Anyway i dont want to go on for too long, but i won't be surprised when history exhonerates Sadam.

[fredjacksonsan]

I don't know about exonerating Saddam, he was an evil bastard by all accounts. But you make a valid point and that is was I was getting after; it's not racist at all but rather a cultural reality that the people in that region of the world have a very very different view, and a completely different value system and way of dealing with problems.

Not to get off topic but to illustrate, you could compare numerous cultures around the world and see that the day to day life, philosophies, etc are all quite different. I think that each culture should be allowed, no; be encouraged to be the way they want to be and respected for doing so, not forced to set up house in some way that others want or expect them to.

[TRD2000]

GOOD CALL. By exhonerated i only mean to the extent of not being as bad, in comparison, to what has been said. In the harsh, like a hangover, light of day perhaps he will be seen as something other than a complete bastard.

in relation to cultural diversity, and off topic. I saw a thing on a chinese culture in the himalayas last night where they ahve "walking marriages". basically the whole courting system is WEIRD, but in the end fathers don't have anything to do with raising/supporting kids, thats the uncles job. The guy looks after his sister and however many babies she has to however many guys. Tell me you wouldn't be a protective brother in that place! "hey you get the F&*% away from my sister... theres no way i'm having YOUR kid!"

[Murco]

Originally Posted by TRD2000

Tell me you wouldn't be a protective brother in that place! "hey you get the F&*% away from my sister... theres no way i'm having YOUR kid!"

My sister is a bitch on wheels! Hook up with her at your own risk!!